03/19/2011 - Autocross @ Regency Furniture Stadium

[adam]

So I take it a lot of people live in Frederick, which is where I work. We should all get together and grab a beer and food one night!

And it also looks like a bunch of folks are running r-comps this year... should be interesting.

[noelleslie]

The formula is already in the spreadsheet I designed last year. The results show all the times and points but those people that didn't qualify weren't on the sheet that calculates trophy standings.

If your really worried about points I can create a Non-points Class that you can pick when you register. Then I won't include your name on the final points tabulation. It'll be as if you weren't there.

I would sign up as an invisible driver if that option were available, but I guess I could also just do the normal thing since I will not attend the requisite five events. I was just thinking that it's nice for others not to have to wonder whether someone is in the running or not, and can more closely focus on season-long battles that are accurately reflected from the beginning. That's what I did in NJ as a visiting driver in their SCCA events. I ended up in 2nd and 3rd places there, and am sure that someone would have been bumped out more points because of the scoring for the top three. In stead, I received a time, but it was just a token for me.

What I think would be really cool would be to create a separate "Pro Pax" like some SCCA groups have. Then, it would be possible to enter that, and compete on an event-by event basis (no seasonal trophy), where it would basically be like the Non-BMW cars all combined and give a PAX within the Pro category. That way, say AJ, who is not attending many events, me, James Dunham, Michael Gross, etc. who are all driving separate cars, could compete in the same Pax category, and not affect the BMW categories and competitions that exist within.

Just reading what I wrote sounds like a pain in the @# to implement, and I have exhausted myself to the point that I am now considering not even attending

Short answer: I'll just show for T2, and see if I can not be counted.

[Membox]

Looking forward to doing my first real event after taking the class last weekend. As a beginner, can I still request instructors? I assume I should mention it during check-in. See you guys out there.

[civicexracer]

Yeah, it's not hard. However you have to wait until the completion of Event 4 to start the tabulation, and then the results will change all the time as people don't make the mandatory 5 events. (e.g. Think of someone who attends event 1, misses event 2-4 - technically if they attend 5-8 they qualify for a trophy.)

Ah gotcha, makes sense.

I would sign up as an invisible driver if that option were available, but I guess I could also just do the normal thing since I will not attend the requisite five events. I was just thinking that it's nice for others not to have to wonder whether someone is in the running or not, and can more closely focus on season-long battles that are accurately reflected from the beginning. That's what I did in NJ as a visiting driver in their SCCA events. I ended up in 2nd and 3rd places there, and am sure that someone would have been bumped out more points because of the scoring for the top three. In stead, I received a time, but it was just a token for me.

What I think would be really cool would be to create a separate "Pro Pax" like some SCCA groups have. Then, it would be possible to enter that, and compete on an event-by event basis (no seasonal trophy), where it would basically be like the Non-BMW cars all combined and give a PAX within the Pro category. That way, say AJ, who is not attending many events, me, James Dunham, Michael Gross, etc. who are all driving separate cars, could compete in the same Pax category, and not affect the BMW categories and competitions that exist within.

Just reading what I wrote sounds like a pain in the @# to implement, and I have exhausted myself to the point that I am now considering not even attending

Short answer: I'll just show for T2, and see if I can not be counted.

Lol that would be cool but yeah, a headache.. Easiest way would be to adopt the SCCA PAX numbers but it is just more work for those who deal with posting times and whatnot. It's not entirely necessary either since we all compare times anyways and generally know where we stand lol.

Looking forward to doing my first real event after taking the class last weekend. As a beginner, can I still request instructors? I assume I should mention it during check-in. See you guys out there.

Yes, please! Wish more new comers would ask for instructors lol. If you're not running my heat, I can ride along. There are plenty of others that I'm sure will be happy to help aswell, just ask around.

[Highflyr777]

I would sign up as an invisible driver if that option were available, but I guess I could also just do the normal thing since I will not attend the requisite five events. I was just thinking that it's nice for others not to have to wonder whether someone is in the running or not, and can more closely focus on season-long battles that are accurately reflected from the beginning. That's what I did in NJ as a visiting driver in their SCCA events. I ended up in 2nd and 3rd places there, and am sure that someone would have been bumped out more points because of the scoring for the top three. In stead, I received a time, but it was just a token for me.

What I think would be really cool would be to create a separate "Pro Pax" like some SCCA groups have. Then, it would be possible to enter that, and compete on an event-by event basis (no seasonal trophy), where it would basically be like the Non-BMW cars all combined and give a PAX within the Pro category. That way, say AJ, who is not attending many events, me, James Dunham, Michael Gross, etc. who are all driving separate cars, could compete in the same Pax category, and not affect the BMW categories and competitions that exist within.

Just reading what I wrote sounds like a pain in the @# to implement, and I have exhausted myself to the point that I am now considering not even attending

Short answer: I'll just show for T2, and see if I can not be counted.

Noel this actually wouldn't be that hard to implement. I can set up a non-comp "non-trophy" class. Then you guys can compete in your own little world all you want. If your already registered all guys need to do is send me an e-mail if you want to change your class to Non-Comp and I'll take care of it. Then the next event you register for you'll be able to select it. This is of course assuming that our Committee Chairs don't have an issue with it (which I doubt they will).

[Highflyr777]

BTW MSReg has a PAX modifer section but I have no idea how PAX works. If you guys teach me I set it up.

[noelleslie]

That's cool. But since you put it that way, I want to be part of the real world, and not stuck in my own little world. I'm in T2. Fuggedaboutit.

See you Saturday!!!

[mcoupemindy]

BTW MSReg has a PAX modifer section but I have no idea how PAX works. If you guys teach me I set it up.

Basically PAX is a performance handicap but used as a coefficient to the best time of the day for a particular participant. For example, let's say that S4 had a PAX of .85 and T2 had a PAX of 1.00 (fastest).

Person A, S4, ran a 42.345 = 42.345 x 0.85 = 35.993
Person B, T2, ran a 39.999 = 39.999 x 1.00 = 39.999

In this case, Person A would have a higher PAX standing than Person B even though they ran a slower time.

BTW - If you can email me all the raw data - all runs from all events, I'll create PAX indexes for each class. (There are a few different ways to do it, but typically best with as many data points as possible.) Who doesn't enjoy some good statistical analysis.

[mcoupemindy]

The formula is already in the spreadsheet I designed last year. The results show all the times and points but those people that didn't qualify weren't on the sheet that calculates trophy standings.

No, you're missing the point.

Look at your published year end results, event 1, T2. This method stipulates assigning points ONLY to people who attend 5 or more events. Last year event 1 points would be assigned as follows:

Hougham, Ron - 10
Hair, Woody - 9
Brannon, Joe - 8
Lindsay, Greg - 7
Bauersfeld, Carl - 6
All other T2 participants - 0 (they didn't attend 5 events)

(Note, I am not even closely suggesting this is the correct way to do it, rather it's an alternate to drop dead records from influencing points standings.)

[b-pecan]

Question: If I was to use a different car (in the same performance class) halfway into the season would I be able to keep the same points? I'm looking at a few e36 M3s which fall in the same class as my 335i. I'm pretty sure I already know the answer to this question, but I figured I'd ask anyway...

So I take it a lot of people live in Frederick, which is where I work. We should all get together and grab a beer and food one night!

And it also looks like a bunch of folks are running r-comps this year... should be interesting.

Sounds cool, mark me down.

[mcoupemindy]

Question: If I was to use a different car (in the same performance class) halfway into the season would I be able to keep the same points? I'm looking at a few e36 M3s which fall in the same class as my 335i. I'm pretty sure I already know the answer to this question, but I figured I'd ask anyway...

Never been a problem in the past. Honestly, I know some people car whore and just find something to co-drive within their respective classes. As long as it is the same class, doesn't really matter what car you drive.

[PettitWC]

Hello all!!

I realize this is an odd thread to introduce myself in but...

I'm brand new to auto-cross and plan on making it down to Waldorf this Saturday.

Being new to the game, I (like Membox above) absolutely plan on requesting instructors. I've been to one of the driving schools up at Summit Point (maybe 2 years ago?) but am very excited to try this out!

Anyhow, just wanted to hi

[b-pecan]

Never been a problem in the past. Honestly, I know some people car whore and just find something to co-drive within their respective classes. As long as it is the same class, doesn't really matter what car you drive.

Sweet! By the way, I wouldn't call myself a whore... just a car polygamist.

[noelleslie]

It's spring break this week, so I'm around more, and this is a good way to keep myself from studying. I won't be annoying you guys next week.

I think NCC has a good system in the minimum events required and the linear points assignments. I wouldn't change it.

But, we could add a second layer to allow for PAX as well...

Below is the PAX system at SCCA for 2011 and I added some typical cars as examples. To convert to this, either we could (1) use a representative car from each BMW class could be taken such as T2's probably has many E36 M3's on street tires and partially modified, so that is roughly equal to an ST* car, or (2) each person desiring to enter into the PAX class can determine exactly which SCCA class their car would fit into, and assign himself/herself a pax number. Method (2) would permit people to compete directly despite being in a 2007 Mini Cooper on R comp tires/a 2009 Miata on street tires/or a FF5 Cobra. This would also get people familiar with the classing systems in clubs outside of BMW that use SCCA rules [which are attached at the very bottom].

I think most of our cars would be in the Street Touring (ST*) range somewhere, but here is a rough guide:

Stock Classes - R Comp Tires
SS 0.857 Porsche Cayman S
AS 0.841 E90 M3
BS 0.839 Stock E46 M3
CS 0.833 Stock RX-8
DS 0.817 Stock 135i or Mini Cooper S
ES 0.825
FS 0.827
GS 0.809
HS 0.791
Modified Cars R Comp Tires
ASP 0.862
BSP 0.859
CSP 0.858
DSP 0.844
ESP 0.846
FSP 0.835
Street Tire Cars -- minor modifications (Like BMW Tuner)
ST 0.820 E36, Mazda 323 GS, Honda Civic
STS 0.823 1990 Mazda Miata
STR 0.836 2000 Z3 M, 2004 Z4 non-M, Honda S2000
STX 0.824 E30 M3, VW R32
STU 0.838 E36M3, E90, Mitsubishi Lancer

SM 0.869
SMF 0.855
SSM 0.875 (Basically Jonathan's car)
XP (FF5 Cobras)

Say, a person in car one gets a 55.9 in an E90 M3 on race tires (AS), that person would have a (55.9x0.839) = 46.9
Compare that with a first year (1990) Miata running slightly modified on street tires (0.823) who runs a 58.0 = 47.4
The M3 would place higher than the Miata in this example.

Stock Car Index:
http://cms.scca.com/documents/2011%2...20listings.pdf

Overall SCCA rules 2011
http://www.scca.com/documents/2011%2...lo%20Rules.pdf

[mcoupemindy]

It's spring break this week, so I'm around more, and this is a good way to keep myself from studying. I won't be annoying you guys next week.

I think NCC has a good system in the minimum events required and the linear points assignments. I wouldn't change it.

But, we could add a second layer to allow for PAX as well...

Below is the PAX system at SCCA for 2011 and I added some typical cars as examples. To convert to this, either we could (1) use a representative car from each BMW class could be taken such as T2's probably has many E36 M3's on street tires and partially modified, so that is roughly equal to an ST* car, or (2) each person desiring to enter into the PAX class can determine exactly which SCCA class their car would fit into, and assign himself/herself a pax number. Method (2) would permit people to compete directly despite being in a 2007 Mini Cooper on R comp tires/a 2009 Miata on street tires/or a FF5 Cobra. This would also get people familiar with the classing systems in clubs outside of BMW that use SCCA rules [which are attached at the very bottom].

I think most of our cars would be in the Street Touring (ST*) range somewhere, but here is a rough guide:

Stock Classes - R Comp Tires
SS 0.857
AS 0.841
BS 0.839 Stock E46 M3
CS 0.833 Stock RX-8
DS 0.817 Stock 135i or Mini Cooper S
ES 0.825
FS 0.827
GS 0.809
HS 0.791
Modified Cars R Comp Tires
ASP 0.862
BSP 0.859
CSP 0.858
DSP 0.844
ESP 0.846
FSP 0.835
Street Tire Cars -- minor modifications (Like BMW Tuner)
ST 0.820 E36, Mazda 323 GS, Honda Civic
STS 0.823 1990 Mazda Miata
STR 0.836 2000 Z3 M, 2004 Z4 non-M, Honda S2000
STX 0.824 E30 M3, VW R32
STU 0.838 E36M3, E90, Mitsubishi Lancer

SM 0.869
SMF 0.855
SSM 0.875 (Basically Jonathan's car)
XP (FF5 Cobras)

http://www.scca.com/documents/2011%2...lo%20Rules.pdf

Noel,

You're way off base here. There's no translation between our classing and SCCA. Plus, we all know that SCCA has their own issues (like "stock" cars having to run comp tires, blah, blah, blah).

If a PAX is to be created, it needs to be unique to our club using our results. It really bugs the hell out of me when people try to stretch information from a completely different set of data to apply to an isolated set. I deal with this crap every day; please trust me when I say that you can't run appropriate correlations using this logic.

Jonathan