Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18

Thread: Seeking brake pad recommendation

                  
   
  1. #1
    Junior Member ACG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Severn, Maryland
    Posts
    3

    Seeking brake pad recommendation

    After several drivers' schools and track events I feel it's time to install better brake pads. The last time I was on the track my Pagid Red pads seemed to fade, and I think it's time to install something better. My 1997 328is is my only car, so the majority of my driving is all-purpose, daily driving, so I need a brake pad that will work well for that use as well as on the track for drivers' schools. I don't want to change out pads just for track events so I'm looking for an all-application product. I'm thinking about Cool Carbon pads and would like to hear advice. Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Senior Member 1996 328ti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Posts
    3,442
    That is like saying I want a good tire in snow that also gives me grip on the track.
    Personally, it's track pads or street pads. I don't think you can have it both ways.

    Assuming you have an area to work on your car, it really doesn't take long to swap pads and at the same time you can flush brake fluid.
    I've used Carbotech XP10 for track and Carbotech Bobcats for the street because it is a similar compound.
    Swapping different compounds can lead to problems.

    I generally leave my track pads during the driving school season.
    Dust doesn't bother me.
    ...steven
    BMW CCA #146825

    318ti.org | bmwcca.org/forum

  3. #3
    Senior Member mcoupemindy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Haymarket, VA 20169
    Posts
    1,931
    I might get some heat with this, but check out the Hawk Pads. At stock power, the Hawk HP+ pads I used on the M Coupe held up just fine and are good for every day duty (if you can stand a little bit of squeal). Pretty much anything, including stock, will be better than Pagid Reds.
    Jonathan Thayer - jonathan.michael.thayer@gmail.com
    '99 Imola Red M Coupe, '08 Interlagos Blue Z4M Coupe

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Bethesda, MD
    Posts
    659
    Quote Originally Posted by mcoupemindy View Post
    I might get some heat with this, but check out the Hawk Pads. At stock power, the Hawk HP+ pads I used on the M Coupe held up just fine and are good for every day duty (if you can stand a little bit of squeal). Pretty much anything, including stock, will be better than Pagid Reds.
    And I have heat ready: The Hawk HP+ is absolutely, utterly inappropriate for track use. You should NEVER, EVER recommend them for use because of their fade characteristics. Quite simply, when they fade, they tend to fall off a cliff. You go from GREAT braking to basically none at all. I'm on my fourth set of HP+ pads and I love them for street and autox use. They are NOT track pads and should not be used as such. Almost anything is a better choice simply because almost anything else will have more predictable fade characteristics.

    The only track pads that I've liked (I've used a variety of Hawk HT and DTCs, as well as a bunch of the Carbotech XPs) are the PFCs. The cost of the pads is higher, but they brake MUCH better and they have consistently lasted dramatically longer for me. (The Carbotechs were particularly unable to withstand me - two track days was the absolute limit for a set.) I'd just run a set of PFC06es for the season and change back when you're done.
    2006 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4WD Duramax LBZ/Allison 6-speed
    2002 BMW M3 - Alpinweiss III/Black
    1999 323i KP/GTS2 - Alpinweiss III (Black Hood, other stuff)
    1990 325is - Brilliantrot/Tan
    1989 325is - Alpinweiss II/Black (S50B32)
    1989 M3 - Alpinweiss II/Black (S62B50 in progress)



  5. #5
    Senior Member mcoupemindy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Haymarket, VA 20169
    Posts
    1,931
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick325xiT 5spd View Post
    And I have heat ready: The Hawk HP+ is absolutely, utterly inappropriate for track use. You should NEVER, EVER recommend them for use because of their fade characteristics. Quite simply, when they fade, they tend to fall off a cliff. You go from GREAT braking to basically none at all. I'm on my fourth set of HP+ pads and I love them for street and autox use. They are NOT track pads and should not be used as such. Almost anything is a better choice simply because almost anything else will have more predictable fade characteristics.

    The only track pads that I've liked (I've used a variety of Hawk HT and DTCs, as well as a bunch of the Carbotech XPs) are the PFCs. The cost of the pads is higher, but they brake MUCH better and they have consistently lasted dramatically longer for me. (The Carbotechs were particularly unable to withstand me - two track days was the absolute limit for a set.) I'd just run a set of PFC06es for the season and change back when you're done.
    Yep, exactly as I expected. However, every instructor that drove my car had NO complaints. They shouldn't have performed the way they did, but they did. Mind you the car was lighter than the normal e36 with them and not really that quick.

    Note that I did not recommend the HP+, rather to take a look at their lineup. They are affordable and they perform well.
    Jonathan Thayer - jonathan.michael.thayer@gmail.com
    '99 Imola Red M Coupe, '08 Interlagos Blue Z4M Coupe

  6. #6
    Senior Member 1996 328ti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Posts
    3,442
    Quote Originally Posted by mcoupemindy View Post
    Yep, exactly as I expected. However, every instructor that drove my car had NO complaints. They shouldn't have performed the way they did, but they did. Mind you the car was lighter than the normal e36 with them and not really that quick.

    Note that I did not recommend the HP+, rather to take a look at their lineup. They are affordable and they perform well.
    Instructor on track for 25 minutes? Plus they were driving your car so they may have not been driving it very hard.
    I think it depends how aggressive you are on brakes.

    I've driven with good street pads on track because I packed the wrong pads with me.
    I had to change my braking style by braking earlier and longer. I didn't think they were going to last the day.
    You just can't slow down from 120 to 50 consistently with confidence on street pads

    Everyone has their favorite track pads, but ask anyone. Street pads don't cut it on the track.
    And if they say they do, they've never used track pads.
    ...steven
    BMW CCA #146825

    318ti.org | bmwcca.org/forum

  7. #7
    Senior Member mcoupemindy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Haymarket, VA 20169
    Posts
    1,931
    Quote Originally Posted by 1996 328ti View Post
    Instructor on track for 25 minutes? Plus they were driving your car so they may have not been driving it very hard.
    I think it depends how aggressive you are on brakes.

    I've driven with good street pads on track because I packed the wrong pads with me.
    I had to change my braking style by braking earlier and longer. I didn't think they were going to last the day.
    You just can't slow down from 120 to 50 consistently with confidence on street pads

    Everyone has their favorite track pads, but ask anyone. Street pads don't cut it on the track.
    And if they say they do, they've never used track pads.
    Well, since I'm a track n00b, I'm relatively light on brakes. That's probably the reason. Was only driving the car 7/10 as I should.

    I don't disagree with anything you / Nick are saying. Please don't take it as such.
    Jonathan Thayer - jonathan.michael.thayer@gmail.com
    '99 Imola Red M Coupe, '08 Interlagos Blue Z4M Coupe

  8. #8
    Senior Member 1996 328ti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Posts
    3,442
    Quote Originally Posted by mcoupemindy View Post
    Well, since I'm a track n00b, I'm relatively light on brakes. That's probably the reason. Was only driving the car 7/10 as I should.

    I don't disagree with anything you / Nick are saying. Please don't take it as such.
    For someone new to the track, street pads are fine.
    I guess it comes down to ACG's braking style and how often he wants to replace street pads.

    My street pads were toast after a weekend and I'm conservative.
    ...steven
    BMW CCA #146825

    318ti.org | bmwcca.org/forum

  9. #9
    Junior Member Claymore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Montgomery Village, MD
    Posts
    14
    I ran Hawk HP+ for the first few times on the track with my old Mini (R53), but quickly moved to Carbotechs for track days. I do the same now with my M coupe; it's relatively easy to swap pads on track days.

    As you become more proficient on the track, you'll likely be harder on your pads. Eventually the Hawks just won't do the trick.
    Last edited by Claymore; 01-30-2012 at 09:42 AM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Bethesda, MD
    Posts
    659
    Quote Originally Posted by mcoupemindy View Post
    Yep, exactly as I expected. However, every instructor that drove my car had NO complaints. They shouldn't have performed the way they did, but they did. Mind you the car was lighter than the normal e36 with them and not really that quick.

    Note that I did not recommend the HP+, rather to take a look at their lineup. They are affordable and they perform well.
    Again, the problem with the HP+ is that they work wonderfully right up to a certain point. When you exceed that point, you have no brakes with little to no warning. Many folks won't hit that, which is why you have so many people saying "oh yes, the HP+ is totally fine on track." For the ones that do, it's pretty scary.

    As for the rest of the Hawk lineup, my experience has been that they don't work all that well, they are hard as hell on rotors, and they don't really last. (DTC70s nearly shattered brand new rotors and only lasted six sessions, HT14s and HT10s didn't last long and put quite a lot of wear on the rotors.) In terms of brake pad $ per track day, PFCs have been so far and away the clear winner for me, it's just not funny. They cost more, but they a) work better and b) last so much longer that they are cheaper in the end.
    2006 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4WD Duramax LBZ/Allison 6-speed
    2002 BMW M3 - Alpinweiss III/Black
    1999 323i KP/GTS2 - Alpinweiss III (Black Hood, other stuff)
    1990 325is - Brilliantrot/Tan
    1989 325is - Alpinweiss II/Black (S50B32)
    1989 M3 - Alpinweiss II/Black (S62B50 in progress)



  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Bethesda, MD
    Posts
    659
    The problem with the HP+ is that they give you the braking torque of track pads until they stop working, at which point they go from trying to pull out your eyeballs to nothing at all. And they stop working at a temperature range that is just not quite high enough for track use.

    I love them because they are the absolute ultimate street/autox pad. There is nothing that comes even close if you are willing to accept some brake squeal (brake goop is mandatory with them) and don't mind that they dust a fair bit. Understanding their limits is key.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1996 328ti View Post
    Instructor on track for 25 minutes? Plus they were driving your car so they may have not been driving it very hard.
    I think it depends how aggressive you are on brakes.

    I've driven with good street pads on track because I packed the wrong pads with me.
    I had to change my braking style by braking earlier and longer. I didn't think they were going to last the day.
    You just can't slow down from 120 to 50 consistently with confidence on street pads

    Everyone has their favorite track pads, but ask anyone. Street pads don't cut it on the track.
    And if they say they do, they've never used track pads.
    2006 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4WD Duramax LBZ/Allison 6-speed
    2002 BMW M3 - Alpinweiss III/Black
    1999 323i KP/GTS2 - Alpinweiss III (Black Hood, other stuff)
    1990 325is - Brilliantrot/Tan
    1989 325is - Alpinweiss II/Black (S50B32)
    1989 M3 - Alpinweiss II/Black (S62B50 in progress)



  12. #12
    Junior Member ACG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Severn, Maryland
    Posts
    3
    Thanks to everyone for their thoughts. I probably should have mentioned, although you likely figured it out, that in the two NCC schools I was in D Group for the weekend; after that I did a one-day event on Veterans' Day, at which time I felt I was really improving with experience and when I experienced my brakes fading.

    That said, I'm clearly not at the driving level and therefore not as hard on brakes as a Club racer like Nick325xiT 5spd (maybe I'll be in C Group this year, maybe not). I feel it's time to move beyond street pads but maybe not to a full race pad. I'll check more into the PFBs and Carbotechs.

  13. #13
    Senior Member 1996 328ti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Posts
    3,442
    Well fade could easily be brake fluid. I found the Jefferson to be a bit tougher on brakes for me because of the short straights.
    I can't go more than 2 1/2 weekends on brake fluid before noticing some fade.
    I generally bleed brake fluid before each weekend if at all possible.
    ...steven
    BMW CCA #146825

    318ti.org | bmwcca.org/forum

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Posts
    1,523
    Porterfield R4. They, along with many other brands, are available here: http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/
    Woody
    96 328is, 99 M Coupe, 04 330Ci

  15. #15
    I use Performance Friction Z-Rated pads for both year round street use and track use. I lengthen my braking zones after the long straights, the main straight on the main track for instance, to build up less heat so I don't overheat the pads. Come and find me at the next school and I'll give you a ride if you like.

    I buy my pads through: http://store.bimmerworld.com/perform...s-p721c29.aspx

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Need recommendation for a shop
    By sharvey in forum Service
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-21-2010, 07:19 AM
  2. Recommendation for Alignment
    By kcbxt8 in forum Service
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-29-2009, 05:28 PM
  3. Tire Recommendation
    By joelprescott in forum Buying parts sponsored by BMW of Silver Spring
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-19-2005, 01:41 PM
  4. Alignment Recommendation in N VA
    By jdunger in forum Service
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-06-2005, 06:32 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •