Finally insight into that silly BMW "free maintenance" that only fools fall for

[Uber-Goober]

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/artic...mentid=1088569

[Zchild]

Thanks, that was a decent read!

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

The premise is wrong.

The real point of "free" maintenance is to ensure that the cars are maintained properly when they come back every three years, to ensure that BMW's specific fluids/procedures/etc. are followed (remember that they can't legally require specific fluids, etc. unless they choose to provide them "free."), and to discourage the use of indy shops (i.e. income to the dealers).

Of course they price it in. Duh. No one hands out something free if they don't have to.

[Uber-Goober]

I personally think the maintenance is a joke. Like lifetime gearbox fluid. What that means is fluid stays in until gearbox fails, at which point they will replace it at 70k miles, after the warranty expires...It encourages people to trade their vehicles after 4 years and get a new car...good for them, bad for the next guy who buys it used, and for the wallet of whoever rotates every 4 years or less. Basically, another marketing ploy...and a bad reason to chose a certain car.

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

It ensures a minimum standard. And the minimum standard is a lot higher than people would choose for themselves.

[Bob]

The real truth is exposed when the various service intervals were magically increased when BMW picked up the tab. That tidbit would have helped that story immensely.

[Psi5]

It ensures a minimum standard. And the minimum standard is a lot higher than people would choose for themselves.

Nothing says you have to service the car *only* when the recommended intervals come up. Many folks use the freebies and then supplement them with intermediate oil changes, services, etc. at an independent shop. If that is your plan (and it is mine as I am shopping for a new E90), then what's the problem? Having them pay for half my oil changes is better than having them pay for none of them.

[Uber-Goober]

You pay for every oil change and than some starting at the negotiating table and only stop when you get rid of the loan. By then that $130 LOF that is worked into the price is really $170.

The only way one can avoid being a sheep and not do what the manufacturer wants us to do is to buy a slightly used car for cash and take care of his/her own maintenance...

The old saying of "if you can't write a check for it, you can't afford it" is still in place. But people are used to living in debt and on other people's money, which is why they they finance cars and find this sort of "free maintenance" acceptable.

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

You pay for every oil change and than some starting at the negotiating table and only stop when you get rid of the loan. By then that $130 LOF that is worked into the price is really $170.

The only way one can avoid being a sheep and not do what the manufacturer wants us to do is to buy a slightly used car for cash and take care of his/her own maintenance...

The old saying of "if you can't write a check for it, you can't afford it" is still in place. But people are used to living in debt and on other people's money, which is why they they finance cars and find this sort of "free maintenance" acceptable.

What a load of crap. Debt is a tool. The fact that many people don't know how to use it is a separate issue. Free maintenance costs you no more than paying for it at the dealer, even when you are paying interest on it - the rate BMW pays for this stuff is not high at all. What is your problem with it? I'm certainly glad that any used BMW I buy has at least been serviced somewhat.

(And to be clear, I bought every one of my cars used for cash. Well, except for the truck. That's a "company vehicle," so it was new for $10K off sticker minus 35% tax deduction, so it was over half off with the government subsidy. But if I get a new car, I will lease it. It's stupid to buy or pay cash unless the lease rates are very unfavorable.)

[Biggins]

I'm with Nick on his leasing argument. It's a much better deal to lease a BMW for three or so years and decide to buy then, or just trade it in for a newer lease and repeat. I really do not see a downside and highly doubt I would buy a new car. Also, I feel like it is not that hard to find people to take over your lease if you really need out of it. With that said, there are no new cars that interest me enough to get me in a showroom.

I'm an enthusiast, but I hate working on my car, so I really don't mind throwing the maintenance in there.

[Uber-Goober]

Even if one overlooks the financial end of it, I don't want to be told how many miles I can drive something or that it has to remain stock, I don't want to go to an autocross event and have to tape my license plates.

With respect to maintenance; manufactures have been extending service intervals to make it look like their cars are low maintenance, even after the 50k mark or whatever it might be for others. Bmw owners, and I suppose people who lease Bmw's too are better educated due to the club and forums. But the general public knows very little about proper maintenance. I used to own a car shop so speaking from personal experience and from talking with other car shop owners; you would always have a customer come in and be clueless about everything; so here you have to "relearn" them all over again because they were under the impression they only needed to have plugs changed at 100k...and by that time the car is falling apart....

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

Even if one overlooks the financial end of it, I don't want to be told how many miles I can drive something or that it has to remain stock, I don't want to go to an autocross event and have to tape my license plates.

With respect to maintenance; manufactures have been extending service intervals to make it look like their cars are low maintenance, even after the 50k mark or whatever it might be for others. Bmw owners, and I suppose people who lease Bmw's too are better educated due to the club and forums. But the general public knows very little about proper maintenance. I used to own a car shop so speaking from personal experience and from talking with other car shop owners; you would always have a customer come in and be clueless about everything; so here you have to "relearn" them all over again because they were under the impression they only needed to have plugs changed at 100k...and by that time the car is falling apart....

People that clueless frequently don't believe in oil changes at all. I'm not really clear on how "free" maintenance makes the clueless people worse. If anything, it at least encourages them to show up for basic maintenance while the plan is in effect so that they aren't giving anything away.

As for mileage on leased cars, well, you just have to evaluate that rationally. If you put a lot of miles on the car, obviously it doesn't make sense. I've never claimed that it makes sense under all circumstances for everyone. All that I've pointed out is that rejecting leasing out of hand is wrong. (And that the more expensive the car, the more you should consider renting it. I wasn't kidding about the $40k loss my parents took because the bought the SL55 instead of leasing it.)

[Uber-Goober]

I used to have people come by my shop for a state inspection with 2 year old S klasse or 7 series they got from ebay for $33k...at least that comes to mind...new vehicles just don't make sense to me for the most part. I don't like to be the one to take the hit. I work hard for my easily earned money;-P

I don't like leases cause if I want to drive the flippin' thing to Mars and back I will do so without scrutiny, I rack up 20k miles a year, just about every year. I'm certainly not gonna sit at home due to a stinkin' rental, which is what a lease really is. I don't keep my vehicles stock and don't want to hear $hit from some fool at the dealer about a double din that replaced their laughable stock unit...BMW is notorious for $hit navigation that can't find it's way out of it's own garage. "I drive" should be called "I lost and now you are too". Another thing about leases is that you pay, or at least used to pay property tax...property tax on what, $hit you don't own?

The reason I don't like the manufacturer maintenance schedules is this: when I bought my first car, it came with a book of coupons, LOF every 3k, flushes every 30k, timing belt every 90k...Cars are made better today and last longer but if the manufacturers are gonna thrown in something, do it right and include everything at the proper intervals and educate the public, don't do it just half ass...but that does not benefit them...

For instance, my biggest beef with BMW is the "lifetime" fluid in auto gearboxes. We used to have customers coming in all the time, declining flushes due to this lifetime fluid and they would almost come to tears when their gearbox started acting up at 70k and needed to be replaced for $5k. What is cheaper, a $350 BG flush every 30k miles or a gearbox, that ironically still needs to be flushed?

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

I used to have people come by my shop for a state inspection with 2 year old S klasse or 7 series they got from ebay for $33k...at least that comes to mind...new vehicles just don't make sense to me for the most part. I don't like to be the one to take the hit. I work hard for my easily earned money;-P

I don't like leases cause if I want to drive the flippin' thing to Mars and back I will do so without scrutiny, I rack up 20k miles a year, just about every year. I'm certainly not gonna sit at home due to a stinkin' rental, which is what a lease really is. I don't keep my vehicles stock and don't want to hear $hit from some fool at the dealer about a double din that replaced their laughable stock unit...BMW is notorious for $hit navigation that can't find it's way out of it's own garage. "I drive" should be called "I lost and now you are too". Another thing about leases is that you pay, or at least used to pay property tax...property tax on what, $hit you don't own?

The reason I don't like the manufacturer maintenance schedules is this: when I bought my first car, it came with a book of coupons, LOF every 3k, flushes every 30k, timing belt every 90k...Cars are made better today and last longer but if the manufacturers are gonna thrown in something, do it right and include everything at the proper intervals and educate the public, don't do it just half ass...but that does not benefit them...

For instance, my biggest beef with BMW is the "lifetime" fluid in auto gearboxes. We used to have customers coming in all the time, declining flushes due to this lifetime fluid and they would almost come to tears when their gearbox started acting up at 70k and needed to be replaced for $5k. What is cheaper, a $350 BG flush every 30k miles or a gearbox, that ironically still needs to be flushed?

But just because leasing doesn't make sense for YOU doesn't mean that it's a bad program. And yes, of course it's a rental program. I use rent and lease fairly interchangeably myself. As for paying taxes on a lease, well, it's a NNN lease. Of course you're responsible for paying taxes on it. You expect BMW to roll that into the lease payment and hide it from you?

The only modification that my parents are interested in is winter wheels with snow tires. As for your DDIN nav example, well, uh, having installed a DDIN unit in an E46 once, I have to tell you that my verdict is never again. The amount of crap that you have to cut up is absurd. Again, 99% of owners are not like you or me. Just like any other option, you have to rationally analyze whether renting a car makes sense. If it doesn't, then it doesn't. If it does, it's frequently the better option. I'm NOT telling you that you should lease a new car. I'm telling you that it makes more sense for many people to rent it, whether or not they can comfortably pay cash.

As for service intervals, well, I agree that they are too long. *shrug* The only valid argument is that dumb people don't know that they should do a little extra. On the other hand, I still maintain that those same dumb people would very likely NOT have performed anything that they did not absolutely have to if they were paying out of pocket. I mean, just look how many M20s die because their idiot owners couldn't be bothered to change the damned timing belts as scheduled.

[uptownautoservice]

I thin the real truth is exposed when the various service intervals were magically increased when BMW picked up the tab.