(2009) NCC Autocross - June 13 @ MD State Police Training Center, Sykesville, MD

[Biggins]

Thanks for the info guys! Dunlop Star Specs it is.

Now just gotta get another set of wheels to put em on. That'll be the fun part ... the kinda shoppin that dude's like!

-Dbow

Did you look at the 2009 tire thread? There is much more discussion in there about most all the tire options for this year.

[noelleslie]

Star Specs are excellent tires.. I have them on my Z4 in T2. But.. I would still recommend you do what Brian (Bimmer3) and Woody said in being introspective first with your driving style.

There are lots of books that cost less than the shipping on those tires, and you can film your runs too, with a $5 camera mount and digital camera so you can review them afterward and see some of the strengths and weaknesses of that particular day.

I had BF Goodrich KDW-2 tires last year, and while they were good and far from great, I learned a ridiculous amount from riding with people like Adam C., Brian Hair, and others not to mention reading, watching videos, and taking driving schools at SCCA. If you doubt me, look at how my times changed through last year.

If I were you, while I really LOVE my Dunlop Direzza's, I would spend the money on an autocross school, or just have Brian Hair run the second run next time and see where and how he brakes, etc.

I wouldn't waste the time to write this if I thought you would be better off with the tires.

If you are still insistent on the tires, don't shave them. You want the tread to last. I went through 3/32" in one day at essentially a test an tune trying to compete with Brian with us both driving my car. I cannot tell you how much I learned. The tires were essentially shaved afterward, and I learned a lot more than I would having the Tire Rack melt them down.

Cheers,

Noel

[adam]

Star Specs are excellent tires.. I have them on my Z4 in T2. But.. I would still recommend you do what Brian (Bimmer3) and Woody said in being introspective first with your driving style.

There are lots of books that cost less than the shipping on those tires, and you can film your runs too, with a $5 camera mount and digital camera so you can review them afterward and see some of the strengths and weaknesses of that particular day.

I had BF Goodrich KDW-2 tires last year, and while they were good and far from great, I learned a ridiculous amount from riding with people like Adam C., Brian Hair, and others not to mention reading, watching videos, and taking driving schools at SCCA. If you doubt me, look at how my times changed through last year.

If I were you, while I really LOVE my Dunlop Direzza's, I would spend the money on an autocross school, or just have Brian Hair run the second run next time and see where and how he brakes, etc.

I wouldn't waste the time to write this if I thought you would be better off with the tires.

If you are still insistent on the tires, don't shave them. You want the tread to last. I went through 3/32" in one day at essentially a test an tune trying to compete with Brian with us both driving my car. I cannot tell you how much I learned. The tires were essentially shaved afterward, and I learned a lot more than I would having the Tire Rack melt them down.

Cheers,

Noel

Thanks for the kind words! There are others that you didn't mention that are better than me though =)

For the record, I am running kumho SPTs because I'm on a budget. Otherwise, Direzza star specs or the kumho xs would be my tire choice.

Hope everyone had a blast at the event and are looking forward to the next one!

-- Adam

[Pete]

My advice is keep the car the same as there is much to learn your first few seasons autocrossing. Often times, many novices will miss attribute over driving the car with understeer and try to dial that out with modifications. While you can improve the car with new tires and/or suspension changes, it will change the handling of the car and often times slow your learning curve down. This happens because adapting to changes will take a novice longer to get used to and as car guys, we have a tendency to focus on tweaking a car and not improving the driver.

If you think that you are driving to the limit of the car, have one of the more experienced guys/gals drive your car (like Brian H.). If they go faster in your car than you did, you have some more learning to do.

Keep in mind, as forgiving as the BMWs are, being smooth is the key to being fast, so by turning in to abruptly, causing too harsh weight transitions or braking and turning will cause the car to understeer or oversteer which costs you time.

At most, I would work on getting tire pressures correct to get the car consistent (getting a baseline pressure and adjusting so the car is neutral- as stated before pressures vary widely depending on the car you have and tires) and concentrate on driving.

Perfect case in point, I'm driving a almost stock 911 (Edit: forgot I have an exhaust which may provide 6hp) with no changes other than tire pressure adjustments. This is my second year driving it this way. I wanted to drive the car initially this way as to really get a command over the rear engine driving dynamics of the 911. For those of you who don't know my car history I had a modded to the hilt 911 that was amazing but was a very unruly and unforgiving car if you made mistakes. This one is a bit more forgiving but will still penalize you if you make mistakes but has less desire for the rear end to pass the front when you make those mistakes (mind you it will if you're not careful). The plan was once I get mastery of the car to build it up again (that may or may not happen in the future as I'm debating the merits of just moving up into a GT3 when the become more affordable but that's another story) The moral of the story is to learn the car first before you make changes as often times, there is a lot more to learn than you think. I'm still learning what I can and can't get away with in my car.

For an idea of setting pressures The factory recommended pressures for my car are 36 front and 44 rear. Because the factory recommends so much pressure in the rear, it causes the car to push as it has way too much rear grip. The way i resolve this issue is to run almost an non staggered setup at 36 cold all around to start and warm I run 38-39 front and 38 rear or slightly less depending on what the car is doing that day. Keep in mind this works me. To get a baseline, start out at 6-8 lbs over recommended spec and either chalk or carefully monitor the edge of your tires to see if you are rolling over and add air if rolling over. Once you have the tires at the point they are not rolling over then you can stagger pressures to help balance the car.

Sorry for the long winded post. Hope this helps,

[Zcruizer]

Could you repeat that please ?
Something about buying a 911 will help my times......something like that.
Oh right, and keep it stock, I believe the phrase was "bone" stock.

[Zcruizer]

I'm sorry, that was "bone" stock w/ no changes.......

Just busting your bullets, I appreciate all this great advice and somehow try to put this information into my driving next month.

[RedMS3]

Wow, lots of good advice following this last event.

It's very helpful to see people like noelleslie in the Z4 and Pete in the 911 talk about being patient with progression when they also run really fast times. Makes me want to put more emphasis on improving certain areas of driving to decrease times, rather than putting my foot to the floor and hope for the same results.

[MazdaSC]

After seeing what Brian was able to do with the M3 in the fun runs I would certainly like him or Pete to take me for a ride in my car. Noel and I are usually very close in time, but I feel like he is a better more experienced driver and my car is just easier to drive, so getting him behind the wheel would also tell me agreat deal about what I can do better.

[noelleslie]

After seeing what Brian was able to do with the M3 in the fun runs I would certainly like him or Pete to take me for a ride in my car. Noel and I are usually very close in time, but I feel like he is a better more experienced driver and my car is just easier to drive, so getting him behind the wheel would also tell me a great deal about what I can do better.

MazdaSC, when you said we are always close in times, I had to look up who you were. Now I know.

".. he is more experienced..." Yeah right!! You were being gentle with the statement "close in times" since we both know it means you (always or is it with the exception of maybe one distant event?) are better. Or, no... actually it is that your Mazda has about 55 hp less than mine and would be CSP or CS in SCCA to my AS? Even a tie, which I think we came very close to many times, would mean you are the better driver. That other dude in the blue S2000 is always there too +/- a second. Wish he recorded his stuff so I could see what he does.

I would be cool to drive your car, but only if you drive mine too. I have no doubt you are better. I saw your video... the only thing I have going for me is the the racing gloves so that in case I am in a horrible fuel-filled accident my hands are in good shape . Other than that, you easily have me by half a second to a second and a half every time.

I thought you might have been Sadao at first since I (we) have been pulling away from him after being neck in neck forever. With him, I think it is because he is very busy. I think you me and Brian had the best times for our classification at the Mazda, ten runs, eat up your tires event

I never do my best at Summit Point because it is slippery even when dry and I haven't learned to adapt, so maybe at another event we can swap cars for a run.

Also, Woody is getting some Direzza's and I need an excuse, but it is true.

[bmw_matt]

*excitedly waiting for pix*

[MazdaSC]

I think that swapping cars would certainly clear up some things, Sadao and I have been wanting to do the same thing, so maybe we should volunteer for tech, try some ride alongs and swap cars on the fun runs. My car is fairly mild as far as mods, but just about everything on the suspension has been upgraded and I have dialed out most of the understeer, so even though you certainly have the edge in power I can carry more speed without plowing which is where I feel like I am getting you. In your videos you seemed much more composed through the slalom where I was almost out of control. Brian and I ran about the same time at the Mazda club in your car as I did and I am sure he could easily put close to a second on me in my car after seeing what he did in Bogdan's car this past weekend, I guess we need to see if we can get Brian behind the wheel of my car and see whats what.
P.S. .050 seconds is pretty close.lol

[Car54]

Here's some interesting comparo (same event/same car/different driver) and a dose of humble pie for me.

Brian Hair in my car:



Me in my car:



My best time: 59.4s
Brian's best time: 56s

Brian took 1st, I took 4th out of 7.

Here's something interesting I did when co-driving with Woody, in his car:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMlZspASV6I

Sharing your car is very beneficial...but be prepared to lose!

[KatieT]

*excitedly waiting for pix*

They're coming. I managed to sort through all of them tonight and divided them up better this time (too many pics for only two folders). Bad news is I can't figure out how to upload them from this computer so Jonathan will have to do it tomorrow night. I can say that I got pics of everyone this time (the number of cars matches the number of people registered). Once they're up I wish you luck finding yourself!

~Katie

[bmw_matt]

They're coming. I managed to sort through all of them tonight and divided them up better this time (too many pics for only two folders). Bad news is I can't figure out how to upload them from this computer so Jonathan will have to do it tomorrow night. I can say that I got pics of everyone this time (the number of cars matches the number of people registered). Once they're up I wish you luck finding yourself!

~Katie

Woot, thanks. *Excited*

[mcoupemindy]

Photos are uploaded!!!

Please visit: http://www.nccbmwcca.org/index.php?o...=59&Itemid=175

If you enjoy the pictures provided, we ask that you consider a small donation to offset our current and future equipment needs. You can PM KatieT to get donation information.

Thanks!

(p.s. Feel free to picture comments in Picasa. Everyone loves reading your comments!)