(2009) Tire Thread

[Biggins]

I've always been impressed with Toyo!

I love Toyos as street driven tires. They all seem to be great in the rain no matter the model. I love the Proxes 4 as an everyday tire. I hate to generalize, but I think the streetish Toyos/Nittos are more geared toward Japanese and lighter cars (E30) as Nick seemed to infer. Their only exceptions would be their r-comp offerings, but I'd only use them for track events.

I'm currently on the Dunlops, but if I had to buy another set (which I may very well do) I'd like to try the Kumho XS or Bridgestone RE-11.

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

I've always been impressed with Toyo!

I've had several sets of Toyo street tires and liked them a lot. I have never once, however, been impressed with the level of ultimate grip offered. Mediocre at best is my view.

According to durometer readings (10 points softer than, say, R888s, with a big change in the reading over a short period of time), the Toyo R1R is an ultra, ultra soft compound without much structure to back it up. (I will not claim to be an authority on this, I'm just regurgitating here.)

The R1R is still a good choice for a lot of folks. But they come with their downsides.

[Reach]

Thanks for making this easier for me. NOT.

Sounds like Dunlops (Z1 star spec) are still the darling tires if I can make them a dedicated set, and perhaps the Kumho XS if I'm going to be doing street / auto-x duty with them.

Tangentially, something about the tread pattern of those NT-05's makes me irrationally want them.

[pseto]

Tangentially

thats too big of a word to include in this forum Reach lol ...i had to go look it up since its obviously not a part of my vocabulary.

[BradMW]

Autoxers rarely deal with tangents.

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

Thanks for making this easier for me. NOT.

Sounds like Dunlops (Z1 star spec) are still the darling tires if I can make them a dedicated set, and perhaps the Kumho XS if I'm going to be doing street / auto-x duty with them.

Tangentially, something about the tread pattern of those NT-05's makes me irrationally want them.

No. I would not recommend the XS if you're concerned about street comfort.

[Reach]

Quite to the contrary, tangential best describes the line I took at the TSP when my ass started coming around my nose on the curve through the big circle.

Grammar aside, the lack of clear cut tire winners is what caused me to regretfully buy another set of PS2 last year. This year I hope to add grip, if I can ever make a decision. Thanks for the continued notes from Nick and biggins, I do rely (too much?) on reports from others on this topic.

[pseto]

Autoxers rarely deal with tangents.

i tangent all the time

[Biggins]

I drive on the Dunlops everyday March-October on the very rough streets of Baltimore City/County. They are not a comfortable tire on the street, but it's a compromise for the better performance. They are pretty good in the rain too.

[hoyabmw]

The RE01R was never well regarded (except as a nice compromise for comfort as well as price). It wasn't even close to the AD07.

Nick, that may have been true for the BMW crowd, but the RE01R was definitely a front runner in ST on Minis.

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

Nick, that may have been true for the BMW crowd, but the RE01R was definitely a front runner in ST on Minis.

The complaint with the RE01R was similar to the complaint with the R1R - it flops around and can't really handle the weight. I'm not that surprised.

It looks like Brian Hair may be driving my car this weekend too, so I will a) actually show up, and b) might have a competent driver to compare notes with. I look forward to getting some data.

[Zcruizer]

Ok Nick, you sound like you've been around a tire or two. Let me clarify my statement before. When I was shopping for tires, I wanted a good balance of performance and comfort as this is a pleasure car. My car is not a race car and I don't want it to be, buying tires that are barely listed as street tires made about as much sense as putting a fart cannon (catback or version of) on. What's more, I need to keep this car in Showroom class to even compete in autox. The Nitto NT05 has a treadwear too low for my needs, 200, according to the Nitto website. I need a 210 or higher. Speaking of the website, when I stated the Invo and NT05 were similar I was basing this off the chart that is given. Both of their wet and dry performance indicators are very close with the Invo scoring higher than the NT05 in the wet performance. You can look for yourself to see the comparison in the ride comfort and quietness categories. Then you'll understand why I tried the Invos instead.

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

Ok Nick, you sound like you've been around a tire or two. Let me clarify my statement before. When I was shopping for tires, I wanted a good balance of performance and comfort as this is a pleasure car. My car is not a race car and I don't want it to be, buying tires that are barely listed as street tires made about as much sense as putting a fart cannon (catback or version of) on. What's more, I need to keep this car in Showroom class to even compete in autox. The Nitto NT05 has a treadwear too low for my needs, 200, according to the Nitto website. I need a 210 or higher. Speaking of the website, when I stated the Invo and NT05 were similar I was basing this off the chart that is given. Both of their wet and dry performance indicators are very close with the Invo scoring higher than the NT05 in the wet performance. You can look for yourself to see the comparison in the ride comfort and quietness categories. Then you'll understand why I tried the Invos instead.

All that I said is that Nitto's web site does *not* claim that the Invo and the NT05 can be seriously compared. I never said anything about your choice of the Invo over the NT05 - it's irrelevant to the discussion.

You stated "according the the Nitto web site these are as good as the NT05." That is flat out wrong. They are not comparable tires, the web site does not claim they are the same, and you should not be reviewing the Invos and then claiming that the NT05 is equivalent.

[Zcruizer]

You're right Nick, I misspoke. That's why I tried to clarify what I meant. I was trying to respond to "Reach" and his tire hunting experience.

[woodym3]

From a Bimmerforums post (note this was on an autocross course with 15" tires on a Honda Civic. Your heavy BMW on 17 or 18 inchers on a track may have different results.):

I'm not sure this really tells us much, tested in 15" sizes on an ST civic, and so not including any Yoks and on a much lighter car, but here are the results copied from miata.net:

For the June 2009 issue. Just got my Grassroot motorsports where they did some Extreme tire testing. Tires were tested in 15 inch sizes on a hond civic.

Here is a summary of times from worst to first.

6th - Falken RT 615 Mean time: 35.302 Sec Quick time 35.125 Sec.
5th - Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec Mean time: 35.209 sec. Quick time 35.061
4th -Toyo Proxes R1R Mean time: 34.522 sec Quick Time 34.452 sec
3rd- Bridgestone RE-01R Mean time: 34.478 sec Quick Time 34.430 sec.
2nd- Bridgestone Potenza RE-11 Mean time: 34.266 Quick time 34.238 sec.
1st - Kumho ECSTA XS Mean time :34.170 Quick Time 34.030 sec.

All tires were shaved to 3/32 nd and test performed on an Autocross set up.