(2009) Autocross Classing Announced!!!

[ea-sport]

Turbo and Supercharged Cooper S Coupes and Clubmen into Group 3. ; Cooper S to E30 M3 or 325is;

I hate to turn this into an online debate on classing but I thought that I need to put in my two cents. Last year, stock non-M E36 and E46 were classed in Showroom B (SB) which I believe to some extent becomes Group 3 this year (feel free to correct me if I am wrong). Considering how well MINIs performed in SCCA autocross, it's kinda hard to see the porky E36 and E46 compete against Turbo or Supercharged MINIs. I understand your comparison of E30 M3 to Cooper S but looking at last year's result most cars competed in SB were E46s (including mine). I am sure if a stock E30 M3 were to show up, assuming equivalent drivers skill, the E30 M3 would eat the non M E36 and E46s everyday. However, I personally think that in our autocross there is a higher chance of Showroom classed MINIs showing up than Showroom classed E30 M3.

Having said that, whatever you guys decide I'll still go to NCCBMWCCA autocross since you guys are more laid back and I am not that competitive anyway . I just want to know that at least I am competitively classed and if I still lose it's because the nut job behind the steering wheel not because I don't have a chance. That's all guys.

[hoyabmw]

I hate to turn this into an online debate on classing but I thought that I need to put in my two cents. Last year, stock non-M E36 and E46 were classed in Showroom B (SB) which I believe to some extent becomes Group 3 this year (feel free to correct me if I am wrong). Considering how well MINIs performed in SCCA autocross, it's kinda hard to see the porky E36 and E46 compete against Turbo or Supercharged MINIs. I understand your comparison of E30 M3 to Cooper S but looking at last year's result most cars competed in SB were E46s (including mine). I am sure if a stock E30 M3 were to show up, assuming equivalent drivers skill, the E30 M3 would eat the non M E36 and E46s everyday. However, I personally think that in our autocross there is a higher chance of Showroom classed MINIs showing up than Showroom classed E30 M3.

Keep in mind, at SCCA, E36 and E46 6 cyls are classed in DS, Minis are GS or HS, so they should be slower. I think you're seeing some of the allowances for SCCA's so called 'Stock' classing coming in to play that we don't allow in showroom. And you are very unlikely to find an E30 M3 that could still qualify for showroom and would actually get autocrossed.

That said, I hope the club can support 12 classes. It was hard to support 6 and get enough people actually running to make any of the classes interesting.

[gbauer]

Keep in mind, at SCCA, E36 and E46 6 cyls are classed in DS, Minis are GS or HS, so they should be slower. I think you're seeing some of the allowances for SCCA's so called 'Stock' classing coming in to play that we don't allow in showroom. And you are very unlikely to find an E30 M3 that could still qualify for showroom and would actually get autocrossed.

That said, I hope the club can support 12 classes. It was hard to support 6 and get enough people actually running to make any of the classes interesting.

No, no, no! You're doing it wrong! We need about 239 classes so everyone can get a first place trophy! See, it's just like the kiddies get in soccer now-a-days! That way, nobody's a loser!


I don't really care as long as I'm in Jonathan's class so I can beat him this year.

[mcoupemindy]

Mini classing added.

Please note: Mini's must play by the same rules as the BMW's. This means that the common practice of swapping a smaller diameter supercharger pulley will AUTOMATICALLY place a vehicle into unlimited. Also, if aftermarket software is installed on a forced induction MINI, it will be bumped to modified.

[mf44]

Mini classing added.

Please note: Mini's must play by the same rules as the BMW's. This means that the common practice of swapping a smaller diameter supercharger pulley will AUTOMATICALLY place a vehicle into unlimited. Also, if aftermarket software is installed on a forced induction MINI, it will be bumped to modified.

Yay! This is good news. Now I just need to get me some OEM size tires to stay in stock class.

[Car54]

Not just size, but treadwear rating above 210 as well.

Also Jonathan, you probably didn't realize this but it is great that you can run a strut bar in stock class, especially for Mini's since most need some type of reinforcement on the strut towers.

[gnhovis]

Thanks, Jonathan. It's good to have to be classed, even if it's "unlimited" in my case....

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

Is there some reason why a properly prepared SCCA ST car is prevented from running in the "Tuner" category? The class allowances are close, but there are key differences (like seats) that would stop that.

(And as a side note, why that awful name?)

[woodym3]

(And as a side note, why that awful name?)

We didn't mean to offend Nick. We wanted a single word description between "showroom" and "modified". "Prepared" would have caused too much confusion with SCCA rules. SCCA rules were not considered when our new ones were established, but I agree that an SCCA ST car should be able to fit our Tuner category. We didn't want to use "modified" either, but couldn't think of any better descriptive word.

[mcoupemindy]

We didn't mean to offend Nick. We wanted a single word description between "showroom" and "modified". "Prepared" would have caused too much confusion with SCCA rules. SCCA rules were not considered when our new ones were established, but I agree that an SCCA ST car should be able to fit our Tuner category. We didn't want to use "modified" either, but couldn't think of any better descriptive word.

The classing will be revisited for the 2010 season (if necessary) - it is final for the 2009 season.

[Car54]

Would "tricked out" be better?

[mcoupemindy]

Would "tricked out" be better?

"Yo, my car's so pimp. It rolls in Tricked Out 2."

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

Would "tricked out" be better?

"Equipped" is better in my book if you have to stay away from "Prepared."

Out of curiosity, why was the SCCA Stock allowance taken out of the middle class? Performance is essentially equivalent and it would be nice not to exclude people who are relatively serious about it. (Although, I have to admit that the rules seem almost as if they were specifically written to ensure that any fully prepped SCCA car will choose not to run with BMW.)

[mcoupemindy]

"Equipped" is better in my book if you have to stay away from "Prepared."

Out of curiosity, why was the SCCA Stock allowance taken out of the middle class? Performance is essentially equivalent and it would be nice not to exclude people who are relatively serious about it. (Although, I have to admit that the rules seem almost as if they were specifically written to ensure that any fully prepped SCCA car will choose not to run with BMW.)

The annual meeting was open to everyone ...

Those who showed up had a huge voice in the classing system.

If you're concerned about it, we will hold another meeting in Dec '09 / Jan '10. Until then, you can moan, groan and complain as much as you want. However, it's not going to change anything. I suggest that you make notes in what you think should be changed. Keep those notes and show up for the meeting.

Remember, the BMW program is about having fun which is a great relief from the Ultra $$$ competitiveness of SCCA events.

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

The annual meeting was open to everyone ...

Those who showed up had a huge voice in the classing system.

If you're concerned about it, we will hold another meeting in Dec '09 / Jan '10. Until then, you can moan, groan and complain as much as you want. However, it's not going to change anything. I suggest that you make notes in what you think should be changed. Keep those notes and show up for the meeting.

Remember, the BMW program is about having fun which is a great relief from the Ultra $$$ competitiveness of SCCA events.

I do not expect the rules to get changed for this season. It is, however, useful to have *other* people thinking about the rules as we go along.

...and to be quite frank, after having argued at a previous autox meeting for the SCCA allowances, I'm rather surprised to see that they were taken out.

(Also, the cost argument for NCC classing is specious - a maxed out "Tuner" car would cost at least as much to build, and throwing everyone else into an unlimited class certainly doesn't do much for cost containment.)