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Thread: Question regarding Showroom class

                  
   
  1. #1
    Senior Member BahnBaum's Avatar
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    Question regarding Showroom class

    So here's a cut and paste from the autox section regarding Showroom Class:

    Showroom
    This class is stock. The car MUST be as available from the factory. This will allow for wheel changes, but they must be in a size available as an option on the car. The intention for this class is that aftermarket factory style parts can be replaced. So you can use non-adjustable shocks, any brake pads, rotors (no slotted or cross-drilled, just any manufacturer), any type of street tire (not R-Compounds), or minor appearance items such as different bumpers due to crash repairs. CG-Lock seat belt restraints will be allowed.

    I have two specific questions:

    When it says, "This will allow for wheel changes, but they must be in a size available as an option on the car. ", would this allow the use of any size tire on a stock wheel size?

    When it says, "...any type of street tire (not R-Compounds)," what is the definition of R-Compounds? If the tire is street legal, like RA1s, would those be considered street tires and therefore legal in Showroom? Or is there some treadwear rating where street legal tires are considered R-comps and therefore not considered a "street tire" for the purposes of the classing definition?

    Thanks!
    Alex

  2. #2
    Senior Member Pete's Avatar
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    Someone correct me if I understand this incorrectly:

    The spirit of the rules are basically you are to stay stock but the rules allow for OE type replacement parts for standard maintanence items IE brake pads etc.

    You can change the wheels but they must be the same size/width that was offered as an option.

    As for the tires, R-Comp tires are not allowed in showroom. A stretching of the rules would be running an Azeni or MX.

    Pete

  3. #3
    Senior Member jkuper's Avatar
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    MX what? Kumhos? I don;t think they are different from S03s or BFG KDs. Still a street tire....


    -- Jason

  4. #4
    Senior Member BahnBaum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    You can change the wheels but they must be the same size/width that was offered as an option.
    I understand wheels. How about tire sizes?


    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    As for the tires, R-Comp tires are not allowed in showroom. A stretching of the rules would be running an Azeni or MX.
    Part of my problem is that I don't understand the definition of R-Comps. I always assumed that R-comps were not street legal. I've prolly been looking at this incorrectly.

    Alex

  5. #5
    Senior Member Pete's Avatar
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    I'm not sure on the tire width question. Someone else chime in. I would interpret the rules indicating that you could go with optional tire widths and not deviate from it.

    The R-Comp tires are still technically DOT legal. Our classing does not allow or R-Comps. The term street tire is implying non R's.

    Pete

  6. #6
    Senior Member jkuper's Avatar
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    I would say stock sizes only for tires as well. I think that's the idea of showroom. R-comps are DOT certified, but I think if you got pulled over running almost no tread RA-1s, you might be in trouble. Look at Ken - he ran V700 265/35 with nothing else but a front sway and was in prepared category. I am not sure about someone we know running 255s all the way around in Showroom...I think NCC rules allow some slack...


    -- Jason

  7. #7
    Senior Member jkuper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    I'm not sure on the tire width question. Someone else chime in. I would interpret the rules indicating that you could go with optional tire widths and not deviate from it.

    The R-Comp tires are still technically DOT legal. Our classing does not allow or R-Comps. The term street tire is implying non R's.

    Pete

    No such thing as optional width on E46 M3. Both 18 and 19" tires are 225/255


    -- Jason

  8. #8
    Senior Member FT's Avatar
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    I think you can define r-comps as any tire with tread wear rating less than 140.
    Fatih

  9. #9
    Senior Member BahnBaum's Avatar
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    This is what I was looking at doing, in order of importance:

    1) go to a wider width front tire on my stock wheels
    2) remain in Showroom M and A Stock
    3) consider going to RA1s as my car is not my daily driver

    So it sounds like I definately can't accomplish #2 and #3 under either NCC or SCCA rules, right?

    And it even sounds like #1 and #2 together don't meet the "spirit" of the NCC classing rules.

    Am I looking at this correctly?

    Alex

  10. #10
    Senior Member jkuper's Avatar
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    I think if you went to a wider tire and used RA-1s, you would still be in AS with SCCA. But that should put you out of NCCs Showroom. SCCA stock class allows for

    Anything available on the exact model and year of your car as standard or optional equipment, as installed on the factory assembly line (nothing available only dealer-installed is allowed), plus
    Standard OEM identical replacement parts
    Accessories, gauges, appearance, comfort, and convenience items (not replacement driver's seat, though) that basically don't help
    Added roll bar or roll cage to spec (not required, though)
    Driver harness (no cutting seats to install, though)
    Trailer hitch and/or tow bar mountings
    Any wheel of diameter and width identical to a stock or factory optional wheel, offset within +- 0.25 inch
    Most street legal tires that will fit the mounted wheels and stock bodywork
    Any shock absorber of the same type and mounting as original; no change to standard spring mountings is allowed; suspension geometry may not be altered; gas or hydraulic shocks are permitted
    Any brake linings; pre-1992 cars may use solid/braided metal brake lines.
    Any front anti-roll bar (no change to stock/optional rear anti-roll bar, if present)
    Manufacturer specified ignition settings only
    Any replacement air filter element (or removal of air filter element); no plumbing changes, however
    Engine bored no more than .020"; no balancing or porting/polishing of head
    Replacement of any part of the exhaust system past the catalytic converter (if quiet)
    Any oil filter
    Added clutch scattershield

    I think street legal tire in this case is any DOT tire, basically not drag radials or what have you.


    -- Jason

  11. #11
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    You guys pretty much have covered it. The intention of Showroom is to be as available from the factory (or similar replacement parts.) I believe (and as the one who wrote up the rules... ) that going up to a wider tire should not be allowed in showroom.

    All R-Comps are illegal in showroom. That means RA1s, Hoosiers, Victoracers, Ecsta V700s, Ecsta V710s, Avon's tires that look similar to hoosiers, Yok A032Rs, etc. All R-comps as defined by anyone must be DOT legal tires, which means they are legal to drive on the road, although with most of them it's not a very good idea. It's hard to nail down a definition of an R tire that spans all manufacturers, but in most cases they will not give you a treadwear rating, or if they do it's VERY low (like 30.) I think Falken Azenis have a 200 rating, for reference, and that's the closest tire I know of to an R-comp that isn't one. It would probably be taken as really pushing the limits, but if that is available in the right size, then it would be allowed within the rules as written.

    Kevin

  12. #12
    Senior Member jkuper's Avatar
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    Kevin, I got your reply, thanks. Still processing...


    -- Jason

  13. #13
    SCCA uses 140 tread wear rating to define Street tires for STS and other Street tire classes.

    Alex, why not go to R-comps and put a front bar on the car and run Prepared and still be A Stock SCCA?
    Terry Carraway
    02 Topaz E46 M3 SMG
    00 Dakar M Roadster
    95 Alpine E36 M3 LTW
    SCCA Spec Racer Ford Red/White

  14. #14
    Senior Member BahnBaum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinecone
    SCCA uses 140 tread wear rating to define Street tires for STS and other Street tire classes.

    Alex, why not go to R-comps and put a front bar on the car and run Prepared and still be A Stock SCCA?
    That's exactly what I'm leaning towards doing now, Terry.

    Alex

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoyabmw
    The intention of Showroom is to be as available from the factory (or similar replacement parts.) I believe (and as the one who wrote up the rules... ) that going up to a wider tire should not be allowed in showroom.
    I read the rule as only applying to wheels, not tires. I was running 205s intead of 195s all season in Showroom, but given that interpretation, I should have been in Prepared. I'll be in Prepared next season, especially after the mods I've made this month.

    Woody is the rightful owner of the top spot in Showroom this season. I can't wait for next season to start so I can chase down Rafael (yeah, like that's going to happen.) :roll:

    Brandon

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