A Weekend that started good and ended up bad

[SMOODY]

If it fishtailed, you were slow to recognize oversteer, cranked the wheel too far, held it too long, and repeated that a few times until you left the road.

I think that is a fair assessment. I was not ready for the slide, so it took me by complete surprise. I probably did over react with too much opposite lock and held it there too long.

The stiffer rear sways also seemed to result in a faster transition between neutral, oversteer and understeer. My reaction times were not fast enough and my lack of experience with the new setup resulted in not making the appropriate inputs. I was on a very steep learning curve and I ran out of road before I could get a feel for it.

[Dirichlet]

The road before the turn was wet and a little muddy from a construction site. I had slowed down going through the mud...

She had come out to check on me before the police arriving on the scene. She said that she remembers the traction control in her car coming on as she took that turn. Although it was not visible, there may have been just enough of a film of dirt in that corner to effect traction....

I believe that would be a defense... stick to the road being crappy - don't tell anybody about the sway bars, etc. (unless you already said something to the cops - hopefully, you didn't)

Good luck

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

I think that is a fair assessment. I was not ready for the slide, so it took me by complete surprise. I probably did over react with too much opposite lock and held it there too long.

The stiffer rear sways also seemed to result in a faster transition between neutral, oversteer and understeer. My reaction times were not fast enough and my lack of experience with the new setup resulted in not making the appropriate inputs. I was on a very steep learning curve and I ran out of road before I could get a feel for it.

Yep.

And swaybars really do suck in the wet, which just makes things that much worse.

[glindsay]

From what I recall the UUC instructions are not clear. Attaching the links in the forward holes on the FRONT sway bar is full STIFF. Whereas using the forward holes on the REAR bar is full LOOSE. Smoody, is this consistent with your initial settings?

Greg

[SMOODY]

From what I recall the UUC instructions are not clear. Attaching the links in the forward holes on the FRONT sway bar is full STIFF. Whereas using the forward holes on the REAR bar is full LOOSE. Smoody, is this consistent with your initial settings?

Greg

I agree that the UUC instructions were a bit lacking. They were written for an e36. But between the instructions and the Bentley book I figured it out.

I used the holes furthest from the end of the bar on the front.

I used the holes closest to the end of the bar for the rear.

[SharkD]

Well, if you had the front stiff and the rear loose (which is sounds like you did), I would suspect that, unless you were absolutely flying down the road, that the combination of water and mud on the roadway, (with a little help from the lack of DSC) caused the rears to loose their grip. The suspension change only resulted in the car moving faster than you were used to reacting.

Please tell me that you took photos of the road surface as soon as possible after the incident... if you could prove that the surface was slick and that sight lines prevented you from being able to anticipate the lack of grip, you might be able to get the charges dropped, or at least reduced to exceeding proper speed in degraded conditions. (Keeping a disposable camera in the glove box is always a good idea for accident claims.)

IIRC, the state/county/etc also has road surveys that might show how different surface conditions at the posted speed can affect traction and control.

The clause about "irrespective of speed" in code 46.2-852 only exists so that they can charge someone who's weaving in and out of lanes (and so on) but doing the speed limit or less.

Setup of the Sway Barbarian

It is recommended that you become familiar with the characteristics of the Sway Barbarian before "pushing it" in higher speed maneuvers. Without becoming adjusted to your car's new handling, you may lose control of your vehicle.

After the front and rear Sway Barbarians have been installed, it is recommended that the front be set to FULL STIFF (which is the innermost of the three holes) and the rear to FULL SOFT (holes closest to the ends). This setup will give your car the reasonable understeer with the Sway Barbarians. From there, you can tune the bars to your driving style.

For advanced users, note that you can set the front and rear bar in "middle" positions. For example, the rear E36 M3 Sway Barbarian has two adjustment holes. Conventional thinking would assume that you have two positions, softer (holes furthest away from the ends of the bar) or stiffer (holes on the ends of the bar). For increased fine tuning, you can set one side to soft and the other side to stiff. The vehicle does not know the different from side-to-side when it comes to bar stiffness, so in effect, you have a "middle" position.

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_pr..._bar/setup.htm

[OwnedbyDuncan]

Yeah you were lucky no one else was heading in the other direction. You could have hurt, maimed or killed someone because you were stupid enough to test a suspension modification on a public road. Think about what could have happened if there was another car. I have problems with 20mph over the speed limit in VA being an automatic Reckless Driving citation but I dont have a problem with the officer citing you for Reckless since you were. And if someone was killed I wouldn't have a problem with PW Commonwealth's Attorney charging you with manslaughter or another serious felony. Just be happy since you were charged with a Class 1 misdemeanor that you weren't hauled off to jail, fingerprinted, your mug shot taken and thrown in lock up with Bubba until you posted bail. The bologna snadwiches suck in PW. You did something stupid you got off easy with Reckless Driving. Maybe you will beat it in court. If you are white, male and have a decent attorney you should be able to plea bargain it down. Instead of whining just consider how lucky you are. Depending on what you do for a lving a midemeanor conviction can have serious consequences. In DOD it can result in loss of your job or you security clearance or level of access(es).

Dave Apker

[GT]

SMoody made a mistake. No need for lectures or that "you're lucky you didn't..." attitude. So he's learning how to drive...big deal.

As insulting as it may have been, the cop that issued the ticket had a reason for doing so: it was part of his job. What about you a-holes?

[GT]

Yup. I meant you, a-hole.

[1996 328ti]

SMoody made a mistake. No need for lectures or that "you're lucky you didn't..." attitude. So he's learning how to drive...big deal.

I agree. He made a mistake and accepts full responsibility. There is nothing more that needs to be said. No one got hurt.

[rumatt]

I installed the UUC bars a while ago on my 330i. With the front at full stiff and the rear at full soft, I still had oversteer problems at autocrosses (back when I had stock shocks). I don't consider them "neutral" at all.

Like you, I initially thought a front bar only would create understeer... but it doesn't. Right now I'm running a front 27mm H&R bar and the stock rear bar. It's very reasonable. I guess the theory is that the car has camber problems, so by keeping the front tires flat you're giving the front more grip...

or something.

[SMOODY]

Please tell me that you took photos of the road surface as soon as possible after the incident...

no. I did not have a camera with me.

Yeah you were lucky no one else was heading in the other direction. You could have hurt, maimed or killed someone because you were stupid enough to test a suspension modification on a public road.....

Dave, I agree. I made several mistakes that day. It was very fortunate that no one was injured. It could have gone horribly wrong. I think that I have learned from the experience, and hopefully others have as well. Peace.

[mlytle]

maybe it is just my paranoia setting in, but if i did something stupid on a public road i wouldn't say a word about it in a public internet forum. while all the friendly banter amongst the regulars here would be interesting, i would be afraid some crafty attorney/judge/cop would see it and use it for evil. especially if there was already a reckless driving ticket on record.
my suggestion for smoody...go back and delete every post here where you admitted anything...

[OwnedbyDuncan]

DiD the installation instructions mention anything about preload and how this is not good. ANd it is too early for me to remember why?

Dave Apker

[OwnedbyDuncan]

After Officer Donut embellishes and gives his version of events you are called to stand and provide the following sworn testimony.

Well your honor I was driving down (fill in th blank) and I got to the part of the road where its gets twisty. As I entered one curve the road surface was covered with mud, debris and was wet. My BMW started to fishtail and I over corrected and ended up in the ditch on the side of the road.

Definition of Reckless Dring from VA Code
Irrespective of the maximum speeds permitted by law, any person who drives a vehicle on any highway recklessly or at a speed or in a manner so as to endanger the life, limb, or property of any person shall be guilty of reckless driving.



Sir I find you guilty of Reckless Driving. Fined $1000.00 and your license is supsended for 3 months.

Read the definition you just admitted to the violation. The condition of road is not mitigation. Would have mattered if the curve was covered with ice. You are supposed to be driving at a speed that allows you to control your car. If road conditions are that bad you are supposed to have enough common sense to stay off the road.

Talk to your attorney and try to plead down to Driving to Fast for Conditions or better yet Failure to Obey a Highway Sign or Failure to Give Fulltime and Attention. Defective Equipment. Blaming the road conditions is an admission of guilt especially when the judge notices you are driving a nice shiny new BMW.

A traffic citation means higher insurance rates. However a midemeanor conviction can result in job loss, loss of your security clearance or acccess and you can be separated involuntarily from the military etc.

Dave Apker