R-Compound Learning Curve?

[SharkD]

In loading my E30 325is for the Shenandoah, I became curious -- I've never run R-Comps before and I've never run the Shenandoah.

Is there a steep "learning curve" for R-comps and is it a better idea to leave the race pads and r-comps off for the first day? (I have 12 NCCBMWCCA track days under my belt, on the Jefferson and VIR main, if that helps.)

Thanks.

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

Race pads should go on, no matter what.

R compounds give you more grip, and better response, but they also LOSE grip less progressively. You have to be faster.

[mlytle]

agree. use both. just work up to the edge of r-comps slowly. as nick said, they are less progressive when they let go than street tires. you will be amazed at how much grip they have until they don't..... once you learn where the edge is though, you can tune into it and work with it.

just let your instructor know your experience level with your new toys is.

[bimmer_fahrer]

Dan,

I'm a recent graduate of the IA program and my suggestion is that you run with your street tires as long as you can. The difference in grip between a High Performance Street Tire and R-Compound is astronomical. But, like everyone else has mentioned, once it(R-Compound) loses grip, it goes very quickly. I'm not speaking on behalf of the all of the Instructors, but I would imagine that most of them would rather ride with you on streets. You'll have enough to learn on the Shenandoah circuit without having to factor in the "learning curve" of R-Compounds.

Greg

[1996 328ti]

Although I do find RA1s give you feedback. Not as much as a street tire of course.
Oddly enough I am no quicker with RA1s than the T1-S. Let's just say, hypothetically, I was to time myself at VIR. I would have been no quicker with the RA1s as opposed to T1-S. I have found a comfort zone that is not dependent on tires. It wasn't until an instructor at Mid-Ohio got my tire pressures in check and worked out my brake bias that I was able to pick up more speed and extend that comfort zone. And with the encouragement of my last instructor at the Mazda school at VIR, Grand East I was able to carry more speed comfortably.

As far as our Shenandoah school goes, they may run a different configuration on Sunday so consider it a different track in some parts.

I haven't been on the Shenandoah but in my early days I was running MetalMasters on the Jeff. I am not an agressive braker although I like to brake deep. I cooked the brakes onthe second day. Could have been poor braking, crappy pads but have never gone back to the track without dedicated track pads.

[SharkD]

Thanks for the replies...

Hmm... Well, I'm definitely going to swap the HPS's for Blues up front (and maybe my C1144's in the rear), but I'm still unsure about the tires.

Part of the problem is that the street tires on the e30 are somewhat lacking in handling -- they're fine for the street, but sort of lousy on the track; they're the previous owner's practically-new, cheapo all-season Sumitomos (r) and Yokohamas (f). (The R-Comps I bought from Barry Brown in May are moderately used Hankook Ventus RSS Z211 C50's -- RA-1s are Spec, but I'd rather start out with less pricey (read: used) R-Comps until I get the hang of them.)

The E30 is prepped for spec-e30 (stiffened suspension, roll-bar + 6-pts, no engine/ecu mods, stock drivetrain & brakes) -- it's a track rat and only a track-rat, as I have the intention on learning with the car prepped for eventual NASA/BMWCCA-CR competition.

All my days on the Jefferson (including the May 2005 1-day school) have been in the E24, running AVS ES100's that two separate instructors; over the course of two NCC BMWCCA schools have told me that I've reached the functional limit of those tires. In the two days at VIR in the 325 -- the Sumi/Yoko A/S streets were somewhat greasy.

(Now, preferably, I'd have run the May 2005 school in the (then-new-to-me) e30, on streets, but a broken rocker arms sunk that idea two days before the school.)

I'd like to think that I'm a fairly (but not overly) cautious driver, even on the track. Neither of my "track cars" are blazingly fast -- that doesn't matter to me -- but I do want to make sure that I'm limited by my current skill-set, not my equipment... (not trying to sound asinine).

Still unsure of what I'm going to do...

[woodym3]

Thanks for the replies...

[Part of the problem is that the street tires on the e30 are somewhat lacking in handling -- they're fine for the street, but sort of lousy on the track; they're the previous owner's practically-new, cheapo all-season Sumitomos (r) and Yokohamas (f). (The R-Comps I bought from Barry Brown in May are moderately used Hankook Ventus Z214's -- RA-1s are Spec, but I'd rather start out with less pricey (read: used) R-Comps until I get the hang of them.)


Still unsure of what I'm going to do...

Dan,
Unless you plan to be using the E30 w/the all-seasons in the snow this winter, I'd leave them on for Saturday. Might as well use them up while learning the new track. Then you can use Sunday to learn the 'kook R-tires (even if there are some slight variations to the track configuration).

[white_2kgt]

moderately used Hankook Ventus Z214's -- RA-1s are Spec, but I'd rather start out with less pricey (read: used) R-Comps until I get the hang of them.)

Run the kooks, you will be fine. Just give them a few laps to warm up and get comfortable with them. You will love it.

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

Fundamentally, if the tires aren't squealling like pigs for you in every corner, you don't really need the r-tires.

[mlytle]

if you are planning to race the car, don't bother with the all season tires. they will just melt/chunk/roll over anyway. go with the r-comps, even if you don't push the limits. start getting used to the feel.

track time is valuable, don't waste it on crappy tires.

note - i say this because of the amount of schools he has already done and his intent to race in near future. advice to someone not on this track would be different.

i had a set of crappy yoko r-comps i would run on the race car, only when i was bedding brakes or testing brake system changes. zero driver improvement or suspension tuning value. they came off as soon as i was sure i wouldn't flat spot a hoosier...

[SharkD]

I just wanted to thank everyone for their input.

I decided to go with the R-comps and it worked out well -- based on the wear pattern, I was definitely utilizing the added grip of the r-comps today (yesterday, not so much - based on the irregular wear).

The only time that the RSS's were a liability was on the skidpad -- it was the first time that I was on the skidpad in the E30, and I've got to adjust my reactions from the way the E24 handles -- with the stickier tires, I found it difficult to break the rear loose (the broken sprinkler by the access road didn't help either).

[mlytle]

glad you had a good time! when were you at the skid pad? i made an unscheduled visit over there on the last lap of the enduro race today... didn't stay long though!!

[SharkD]

Around 1:30ish...

edit - How fast were you taking the SPMC Turn #5, if you tracked out to the Shenandoah skidpad?

[bimmer_fahrer]

Marshal,

We were over at the Shenandoah cct. If you managed an "unscheduled visit" to that skidpad, you must have really been moving....

Greg

[mlytle]

Marshal,

We were over at the Shenandoah cct. If you managed an "unscheduled visit" to that skidpad, you must have really been moving....

Greg

ha ha! i am fast, but not THAT fast!!!

yup, i visited the "other" skidpad! i haven't driven on the doah circut so i keep forgetting it's there. my brake pedal went to the floor going into turn one at a little over 125. yikes. i really like that skid pad access road...incident really reinforced being aware of your track position and knowing all the possible escape routes.