http://editorial.autos.msn.com/artic...mentid=1088569
Thanks, that was a decent read!
The premise is wrong.
The real point of "free" maintenance is to ensure that the cars are maintained properly when they come back every three years, to ensure that BMW's specific fluids/procedures/etc. are followed (remember that they can't legally require specific fluids, etc. unless they choose to provide them "free."), and to discourage the use of indy shops (i.e. income to the dealers).
Of course they price it in. Duh. No one hands out something free if they don't have to.
I personally think the maintenance is a joke. Like lifetime gearbox fluid. What that means is fluid stays in until gearbox fails, at which point they will replace it at 70k miles, after the warranty expires...It encourages people to trade their vehicles after 4 years and get a new car...good for them, bad for the next guy who buys it used, and for the wallet of whoever rotates every 4 years or less. Basically, another marketing ploy...and a bad reason to chose a certain car.
It ensures a minimum standard. And the minimum standard is a lot higher than people would choose for themselves.
The real truth is exposed when the various service intervals were magically increased when BMW picked up the tab. That tidbit would have helped that story immensely.
Nothing says you have to service the car *only* when the recommended intervals come up. Many folks use the freebies and then supplement them with intermediate oil changes, services, etc. at an independent shop. If that is your plan (and it is mine as I am shopping for a new E90), then what's the problem? Having them pay for half my oil changes is better than having them pay for none of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick325xiT 5spd
You pay for every oil change and than some starting at the negotiating table and only stop when you get rid of the loan. By then that $130 LOF that is worked into the price is really $170.
The only way one can avoid being a sheep and not do what the manufacturer wants us to do is to buy a slightly used car for cash and take care of his/her own maintenance...
The old saying of "if you can't write a check for it, you can't afford it" is still in place. But people are used to living in debt and on other people's money, which is why they they finance cars and find this sort of "free maintenance" acceptable.
What a load of crap. Debt is a tool. The fact that many people don't know how to use it is a separate issue. Free maintenance costs you no more than paying for it at the dealer, even when you are paying interest on it - the rate BMW pays for this stuff is not high at all. What is your problem with it? I'm certainly glad that any used BMW I buy has at least been serviced somewhat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uber-Goober
(And to be clear, I bought every one of my cars used for cash. Well, except for the truck. That's a "company vehicle," so it was new for $10K off sticker minus 35% tax deduction, so it was over half off with the government subsidy. But if I get a new car, I will lease it. It's stupid to buy or pay cash unless the lease rates are very unfavorable.)
Only thing I can tell you is that I personally wouldn't not buy a vehicle unless I can write a check for it. I don't consider any debt good debt, even mortgage. Driving a BMW used to mean something, but today it just means that someone qualified for a loan or worse yet, a lease. Nothing more. Lease makes no sense, unless it's for business and you can write the whole thing off. BMW's don't fall into this category unless one wants to wave a red flag in IRS' face. Otherwise it's just a stupid move by pretentious people, so that they can brag about what they drive...
...and if someone is looking to buy a used car, you can certainly tell if the car had been maintained or not. I don't care what or how people buy or lease something or if it comes with some sort of mickey mouse maintenance program. What I don't like is that many are idiots and think this stuff is free when in fact it's worked into the price, meaning if I wanted to "BUY" a new car I have to pay extra as well, without a choice...all because of uneducated consumers.
We all vote, at the register...
You can't prove a negative, so you never really know if the 6 year no interest loan saved you more than what they might have knocked off of the price. A Hyundai dealer, Antwerpen, is offering a new Elantra for $1, if you buy a new Sonata, isn't that like $8k?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick325xiT 5spd
How exactly does leasing make no sense? You get to rent a car for 3 years or so, and you can either keep it or hand it back when you're done. You still negotiate the purchase price of the car, and at worst, you pay the same interest rate as you would to buy it. In three years, if you like it, keep the car, or if the car is wrecked, a POS, worth substantially less than the residual, or you're bored, just hand it back. A lease is essentially a put. For example, my parents made the huge mistake of buying an SL55 AMG. Leasing that piece of shit would literally have been $40,000 cheaper.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uber-Goober
Free maintenance raises the AVERAGE level of maintenance performed on all the cars. You can only tell how well maintained a car is up to a point. And if you MUST have all records with the car, then you will spend thousands extra because only a few people will actually do that. Free maintenance means that a) BMW has a record that the service was performed, and b) you have confidence that it was done. I'm not sure why you object so strongly to having the dealer do the work.
And anyway, BMWs are heavily subsidized these days. It's yet another reason to lease, as most of the subsidies come in the form of lease rate reductions and inflated residuals.
*shrug* I'm not sure what the deals some Hyundai dealer is offering have to do with free maintenance on BMWs, or Uber-Goober's irrational hatred of debt instruments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob
I don't expect that free maintenance saves me any money. I just don't believe that it costs me much, if anything, over what it would cost to have the car maintained without it.
Lease only makes sense if you own a company and can write it of. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Lease is not a good deal by the very definition of it and only benefits the dealer. You are throwing money out for a car you should not be driving. High end cars are luxury because they are not necessary. They are not luxury because they have leather and laser cruise and whatever, you can get all of that in a Honda. That being said most un-necessary things will depreciate faster than items that are needed.
In my humble opinion, I believe only way I can afford a car is if I am able to let go of no more than 30% of my available cash, not investment etc...but cash in bank. Otherwise I should be riding in a 1990 Civic or something like that...
What I am saying is that there has been a trend with the manufactures to move vehicles to those who cannot afford their cars by the way of leases...so if a person can afford a cheap car but chooses to lease a more expensive one, or "NEEDS" a new car every two years, they are not in fact an idiot but a financial degenerate. These same people have caused the current situation of "free maintenance" cause they can't do math. When I talk about a person not being able to afford it I am not talking about a person that works at McDonalds, but anyone who is not in a good financial position. They are plenty of people with high incomes and still don't have a pot to piss in. I certainly know plenty of docs and lawyers who earn big dollars, live in mansions and are 2-3 mil in debt...
I understand that the typical BMW driver does not want to worry about maintenance, but all I want, is to be able to buy a new car and take care of my own affairs...which is no longer a possibility without paying extra for the "free stuff"...
Nick, I was just generalizing on the whole debt/loan/freebies dialog, you never know what you saved or overpaid, since you can't prove what the oppsite result might have been. Its kinda like the oil change zealots, nobody knows if it saved the engine unless all the same engines blew up with less service.