I have seen very few 135Is at DEs? I have seen a lot of posting about drag racing. Why am I seeing so much more focus on drag racing?
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I have seen very few 135Is at DEs? I have seen a lot of posting about drag racing. Why am I seeing so much more focus on drag racing?
I haven't seen one 135i at a DE yet.
Then again I don't see anyother 318ti's either. :)
Registered for the Ofest DE @ Road Atlanta.
(2) 128i
(3) 135i
Alan, there were at least two 135is at the last autocross at Summit Point.
Start at 2:40...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy2EwnhWFso
We've (www.MVPTrackTime.com) only had two 135 drivers at track events so far this year. Seems like it would be a great/fun track car.
Feff
Probably because people are worried about the engines. They require some accessories to avoid overheating.
If you spend enough time evaluating the 135i, you'll find it doesn't make the greatest track car. I went so far as to order a 135i (new build) and while I was awaiting delivery, I re-evaluated my decision. I wanted a car that I could turn into a DE / autocross warrior. Between the engine (oil) heat issues, the tuning / reliability questions, and the wheels (you can't get wide wheels in those narrow wells), I had a bit of a change of heart. I ended up not taking delivery and got an E46 M3 instead, for about half the price too.
As the car ages, those questions will be sorted out, its owners will do the hard work of figuring out what good mods work for it, and I bet all this changes. But all that has already been sorted out for the E46, so I went the tried and tested route. Just my thoughts.
Mike's reasons might be right. I believe there was only one 135i at the Tarheel VIR event earlier this month. But I remember for the first few years of the E30 M3, there were very few attending our driver schools. I even commented on that subject in my Competition Corner column. Of course twenty years later, there are tons of these old M3s participating.
Could also be that the 135's purpose was to appeal to people that normally wouldn't buy a BMW...much less risk them at the track.
The whole point of the 135i was to appeal to exactly the sort of people who might do that. It's just that it's not quite right in a few key areas, and if you're serious about it (and don't want to do your own development work), you can buy faster cars for a lot less.
I have a 135i and plan on attending the October drivers school. I was at the last autocross and car control clinic as well. I think the low numbers of 1 Series at track events has more to do with the relative newness of the car rather than any inherent limitations of the vehicles themselves.
Keep in mind, the 1 Series has only been available in the US for about a year and half and has not sold in very large numbers. Consider how many e46s are on the road and it's no surprise which model is more common at track events (or at just about any other event short of a 1 Series meet-up).
Second, most of the cars at track events tend to be at least a couple of years old. How many cars of any model roll right off the showroom floor and onto a track? It feels sort of weird showing up at a track with a car that is barely out of its break-in period.
Finally, regardless of how the 1 Series was marketed (reincarnation of 2002, blah, blah, blah), when I was shopping it was nearly impossible to find a 135i equipped with a manual transmission. I'd guess that the dealers stocked automatics over manuals by about 10 to 1. To each their own regarding transmission choices, but that leaves a very small fraction of an already small number that will appeal to enthusiasts. I actually had to test drive an automatic because the dealer didn't have any manuals when I first started shopping.
Would the discussion in this thread vary significantly for the 335? I am under the belief (please advise if you think its a mistaken belief) that the 335 is mechanically identical, and only slightly different in the body, to the 135.
Down the road I could see tracking my 335, but I also see that some (probably significant) expense would be involved in preparing this vehicle for track. That's part of why I am not tracking the 335 at this time.
Good point Woody and Mike,
No matter what the BMW, it is hard to drive it off of the show room floor and unto the track while the new car smell still abounds. Most M3s for example probably never see the track until the warranty is expired, because of the nagging feeling that if BMWNA catches wind of you even driving by VIR or Watkins Glen they will void your warranty. I believe that in 2018 you will be sick of seeing 135is at the track.
On the other hand I know of at least 5 purchasers of new M3s this spring or summer who have already put their cars on the track one or more times. Some would say, "that's what they are made for".
It probably has alot to do with the price point and stated purpose of each vehicle.
A) Few people track thier ONLY mode of transportation.
B) Few people who own a BMW //M model have only one car.
C) An 135i owner is much more likely to be in the demographic of those with only one vehicle and while they enjoy the sportiness of the One, they are not willing to risk wrecking thier 1 and only One!
D) If you are tracking your $70,000 M3 it is because you can afford not only the car, but any risk associated with tracking it.
In a world where people go broke tracking bone stock E30s, tracking new M3s is impressive indeed. By the way, if any of you now feel guilty about tracking, your M3, I will track it for you. I believe that as time goes by we will see more 135s, M3s, M5s and M6s on the track. It has always been that way and I sense history will not disappoint us now.
Ultimately I tend to agree with Marine on all points. Still, 4-5 years from now it will be interesting to see if the 135 takes off 4-5 years from now when it hits the used car market at a more 'trackday' friendly cost.
I had every intention on buying a 1 then the housing market took a dive.
I even had my license plate, FIRST 1. It would have been on the track as soon as the break-in period was over. All that is a moot subject now.
Come to think of it, I bought my 98 ti in Nov 97 and I think I was already doing DEs that next year.
In 1987 I took European Delivery on a 325is. A few days after it came to the States I did an autocross with 800 miles, and a week or two later I did a DE at Watkins Glen with 1,400 miles. Recommended break-in procedures are overrated.
I've seen more latest M5's, M3's, and 335's at track events than 135's come to think of it.
I'd be perfectly content with a 128i to take out on the track. It's plenty fast enough for me and I always have the feeling of keeping a track car simple (naturally aspirated with minimal options). There seems to be no love from enthusiasts for the lower models which are just as capable.
I'd own a 120/123d 5-door and even another 4-cyl if one ever made it stateside. I'll definitely consider a 128i in a few years, but I've never trusted turbos/superchargers on cars. My friends who've had them seemed to spend more time working on them than driving them.
Then again, I drive a 318... sooooo I could be content with any model
I can't remember who said it now, but some BMW person in the know at the Pittsburgh Vintage GP this weekend said the 128i is the "sleeper" performance car in BMW's lineup.
I took my 135 to Summit Pt (Shanandoah) in May and to Calabogie (Ontario, Canada) earlier this month (July). I am taking it to the Glen in August. I'm still learning to drive the car, but I can tell you it's a blast on the track.
I am using 235/40-17's all around to help the push. It still needs more negative camber at the front, so next winter will see camber plates installed. If you read the forums, braking (overheating) is an issue. I am using Hawk HP+ pads and ATE Superblue fluid and have had no brake problems. Also have had no problem whatever with oil temp.
The power and low RPM grunt of the 135 is amazing. Calabogie has a sharp lert turn and short straight that is up a steep hill. If the M3's caught me on that straight, I had to back completely out of the throttle so they could get wound up and making power.
I believe as these cars age, you will see plenty of them at track events. I bet at some point in time, someone will sell an E46 M3 to buy a 135:wink:
Oof. Switch pads, please. The HP+ are ****ing awesome right up to the moment when they do nothing. They go off virtually instantaneously when they overheat. Switch back to stock or run real track pads.
The HP+ is the ULTIMATE street/autox pad, but it should NEVER be used on track.
Calabogie was a great track. I wish it was closer - about 10.5 hours from my homebase in Pittsburgh. The locals called it a long, short-track. Lots of combination turns, lots of blind apexs. Some really long straights - one incredibly fun long right hand sweeper coming off "the ridge". You should definitely give it a try!
Dave Zeckhausen told me not to use them on track when I bought a set from him (he claimed that a former Hawk exec. told him that). Having experienced pad failure before (no brakes at Summit T1 at 150mph, slowing all the way to 115MPH before flying above the first third of the gravel trap), I wasn't about to try them.
Here's one experienced track guy's oh shit moment with the HP+:
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showp...3&postcount=21
Just don't do it. It isn't worth it.
I have personally tried nearly all of the Hawk pads, I really like Hawk btw; however, HP+ is really not for the track and I don't like them on the street either. For street I prefer Porterfield R4S and for track I would recommend either HT-10 or DTC60/70 combinations.
As above, talk to Dave Zeckhausen, he will confirm the same thing, and has done so in conversations I've had with him. They have an MOT of around 750F, and after that, just go to hell with very little fade/warning. His product description:
Quote:
Hawk HP PLUS high performance street pads have moderate dust, moderate rotor wear, very high initial bite and similar MOT to Hawk HPS of around 750°F. They tend to be noisy, sometimes squealing under light braking, although proper bedding can help. Ideal for autocross. Not recommended for track use, as their friction level falls off rapidly when MOT is exceeded, just like the Hawk HPS.