NCC DE at Summit - June 25-26

You must not multi-task very well :P

1) I understand there are three run groups w/instructors (A, B, and C). So, you create three separate wait group lists. If a person drops out of A, then you contact the next person on list A. I am going to address your comebacks as well. If there is no one listed under A, then the person cannot get a refund unless there is a replacement person. So, this way, NCC is doing the most to accomodate a person; but, at the same time, not being too friendly. It will still discourage people from dropping out. This will expedite things having three separate wait group lists based on experience.

2) You might argue, not fair b/c a person in A group can wait and send in his registration and be ahead of someone that sent in their registration immediately and is wait-listed but in C group. I understand that conflict; but, I think given the choices -- refund vs. NO refund, the policy would be acceptable to most people. My suggestions will tick off some people; but, for the majority, it will be helpful ...

3) It is possible that multiple people will not respond if you call; but, you are playing devil's advocate here. The people on the waitlist SEND in their CHECKS. This is not as if we need them to pay. We can call them up and say, "you are in." The people on the waitlist ALSO have the responsibility to notify NCC if they do not want to be on the waitlist. If they do not want the slot, then they also lose $30.00 for withdrawing.

4) I realized that some will state, too much work for NCC to cut a check for $320.00 when person sends in $350.00. This is easily remedied. Tell people to send in two checks: One for $320.00 and one for $30.00. Yes, some people will bytch and moan about sending in two checks. Too bad is my response and deal with it. I would explain this allows a refund to be issued. If you send in $350.00 in a single check -- NO REFUND will be issued. So, if a person wants to send in one check -- let them at their own risk.

5) I suggest that NCC change their policies a bit. First, when all 60 entrants are reached -- contact all of them in one mass email notifying them have are in. Second, if they say they do not have email -- it is their responsiblity to call in for a status check (this takes the burden off the NCC registrar). Yes, I understand the registrar might get 60 phone calls then; but, this is no different now -- since the registrar's number is readily available to all that are interested. Third, every subsequent participant after that -- will be notified that they are wait-listed and on the A, B, or C waitlist and what their number is. Fourth, NCC will tell them, once a slot opens up, they will automatically be added and notified by email/phone at least 7 business days (tuesday night at midnight) before the event. Fifth, if all packets are mailed out 7 business days (on wednesday morning) before the event (assume saturday is the event) -- all of the packets should arrive by saturday, and monday at the latest.

I think the problem right now is that nothing is set in writing. It's too amorphous. I believe NCC is taking the easy way out -- just saying, "no refunds" b/c it's simpler and time-consuming to consider refunds. However, realistically, many of us have to travel, emergencies come up, car crashes, etc. To this end, giving people 7 business days before the event is quite generous ...

Autocross analogy is different IMO ... you are dealing with 3-4 times the number of students vs. HPDE's. I think HPDE registration can be stream-lined and made more efficient. If people think I am wrong, please feel free to comment; but, people's silence means, at least to me, they are in agreement with my proposal.
 
Multi-tasking isn't the issue for me. It's the time involved opening up all the files that track registrations. Databases, spreadsheets, autox software, text exports, emails.....

1) I believe they already do this. They would also have some people that are border-line between groups. In this case it is best to wait until the event is nearly full so you could put them in whichever group didn't have a decent waitlist.
2) I thought BMW did have a refund policy. It was just 30 days not 7. It says on the registration form (I don't feel like looking it up to confirm).
3) I like the idea of making it peoples responsibility to remove themselves from the waitlist but remember, it does add more work to the registrar.
4) Although I get it, I think it will confuse people.
5) I think the important thing is to notify people earlier for both accepted and waitlisted. If this is done on-line, it might help. Right now I don't think people know if they are accepted before the refund policy has passed. This is probably where the process needs the most work.

I agree that autocross is different in the number of applications but the amount of work to organize is much less. I really don't have to worry about experience levels when I place someone in a heat (unless I'm trying to avoid having multiple novices in a row). But, for autox, the cancellation rate is MUCH higher since we don't require prepayment and don't have penalties for no-shows. We had about a 25% cancellation rate for the autocross school. I haven't even bothered to track what the cancellation rate is for a normal autocross but I think it is a little less. Having a penalty is the easiest way to reduce the cancellations and ease the workload on the registrar. He is doing it on his own spare time and the registrants need to give him as much time as possible to accomodate his schedule. Yes, people have car problems, travel emergencies, etc... So does the registrar. We just need to give him extra time to organize everything.

I don't know about people's silence meaning they agree with you.... They just might not like typing that much. Phew, I'm exhausted. ;)

---Eric
 
You know what, I am not going to argue with you. You can find holes in all of my arguments/suggestions. I know that. I made my suggestions and offered to assist since I recognize the add'l work that it would require to implement my suggestions. I am not saying "MY" suggestions are correct; but, I am at least trying to offer an alternative to the current policy/situation. I do not think it serves the "members" best interests. It may serve the Board's best interest; but, not the members.

NCC does have a 30 policy (refund). 30 days is an unreasonable amount of time, in my opinion, for a person to know that they cannot attend the event. 7 days is a lot shorter time period -- and gives much more flexibility to its members.
 
NoSoup4U said:
You know what, I am not going to argue with you. You can find holes in all of my arguments/suggestions. I know that. I made my suggestions and offered to assist since I recognize the add'l work that it would require to implement my suggestions. I am not saying "MY" suggestions are correct; but, I am at least trying to offer an alternative to the current policy/situation. I do not think it serves the "members" best interests. It may serve the Board's best interest; but, not the members.

NCC does have a 30 policy (refund). 30 days is an unreasonable amount of time, in my opinion, for a person to know that they cannot attend the event. 7 days is a lot shorter time period -- and gives much more flexibility to its members.
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Ditto on the argument stuff... Like I really stand a chance against you (don't you get paid to argue?). I'm getting carpal tunnel from just this thread. I frequently like to take an opposing viewpoint just to help bounce ideas. I agree about many of the issues you have pointed out but want to point out some things that you might not be aware of. By bouncing ideas back and forth we have a better chance of stumbling across solutions. Besides, I can steal some of these ideas to help with the autox registrations. ;)

The problem with 7 days is it doesn't leave the club much time to contact a replacement. If the contact/registration/waitlist stuff was automated you might be able to work them down to 2 weeks. It is nice to give members an extra weekend to get their car prepped. Flexibility to the members is nice but after seeing some of the work involved, I think additional flexibility to the organizers is necessary.

From my viewpoint, cancellations are a pain. They really do take MUCH more time than registering a person (or batch of people) in the first place. This has just been my experience from autox but I know that even more thought goes into the DE registrations/packets/instructions. I can't imagine the work that has to be done to organize one of those events.

Steven has already mentioned that some of the work will be automated for next year. Since they will be reducing their workload they might be willing to adjust the cancellation/refund policy at the same time. If packets/tech forms are available online and acceptance is also available online, this would be a huge step forward. Although they still might make registration open 2 months before the event, they could allow refunds up until 2 weeks before the event. They need to make sure they can fill an event early enough or they will have to start advertising on different threads to assure it fills. Their workload for adjusting for cancellations will increase but it shouldn't be overwhelming if other work is decreased. I would prefer to have registration open 1 month in advance with a 7 day refund policy but I just don't see it as possible at this point. If our events (all run groups) were filling the first day then I think it might have a chance.

My biggest complaint was that I didn't know if I was accepted until after the cancellation deadline was past. If I found out I was put on the waitlist I would have liked to have the option to cancel without risking the money. I'm guessing they would have allowed this but I never needed to find out. Cancelling only takes me a second (just send an email) but it can take a couple days for the mail to arrive to tell me I got in. Had I given up and cancelled, it would have stunk to find out that I was actually accepted.

Remember that the NCC will fill an event but isn't looking for a profit. They can calculate the number of people they want to run and the amount they need to pay well in advance. If people don't show up, it only benefits the people who did show up (more seat time). The NCC isn't going to fill their slot AND take their money because they are just trying to break even. Yes, it would be nice to get more people off the waitlist but at some point you have to shut down registration and move on to the next step of running the event.

Careful what you offer... Someone "volunteered" me to help write an online registration form to help with autox. Next thing I know I'm registrar (and don't have time to write the form). I have had a couple offers to help with registration but it is very difficult to break up the job into smaller pieces. By the time I could break up tasks, assign/track them and put all the pieces back together when they were done, I think it would take me less time to do it myself. I've given away some of the work (thanks Adam). But it still isn't enough for me to start working on the form. There is no way I could do it during the autox season and I couldn't do it during the off season last year because I hadn't seen all the pieces needed yet.

---Eric
 
DS Policy

Why change the DS policies regarding refunds and cancellations when only a very few club members have problems with a policies that have been in effect and working fine for 99% fof DS entrants?

If you dont like the policies attend the board meetings. If that doesn't work run for office for NCC. If you dont like these two options quit bitching and whining like a ewe!
 
Some good stuff here. And even a volunteer to do the work and nothing but negative responses. Why not try it and see if it works? Not like this chapter hasn't tried oddball things before (priority based on previous events that year, auctioing DE slots on eBay).

BTW WRT track time, the open practice last Friday at Summit Point was 7 (yes SEVEN) track sessions. I was BEAT, but smiling. Not bad for $200 fee. And open passing. :) No sign up required, just show up, pay and have fun. Yes, you do have to have a legal race car and comp license, but those aren't hard to come up with.

Only strange thing was being passed by my own tire during the second qualifying session. :) More info (video to come later) at www.teamwtf.org
 
Pinecone said:
Some good stuff here. And even a volunteer to do the work and nothing but negative responses. Why not try it and see if it works? Not like this chapter hasn't tried oddball things before (priority based on previous events that year, auctioing DE slots on eBay).
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The priority based on events attended was an attempt to get more people to at least one school a year. The outcome was people would select 1 of the 4 weekends and attendance was lower than expected. Not such an odd ball idea. The idea was good but the result was bad. The DE slots on eBay was part of an April Fool's joke, albeit a week attempt at humor although at least one person wrote to me saying it wasn't fair.
 
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