NCC DE at Summit - June 25-26
- Thread starter Pinecone
- Start date
1996 328ti
Administrator
Registration Period June 17 - July 15 for the August school. Get you application in on time. NOT EARLY. Anything before June 17 will go to the end of the pile!Phat Ham said:
1996 328ti
Administrator
This should be the accepted list for the June school.
Randall B. 1995 M3
Jim B. 1987 325is
Douglas B. 2001 M5
Blair B. 2002 M3
Thomas B. 2002 540i
Paul B. 2003 Corvette
Don C. 2005 Corvette
Fred C. 1997 M3
Thai D. 2004 R-32
Charles D. 1995 318ti
William D. 2004 STi
Jim E. 1997 M3
Taylor F. 1998 328i
Marty F. 1996 M3
Todd F. 2002 M3
John G. 1993 M5
Robert H. 1988 M6
Helen H. 1989 325i
Ruhl H. 1999 M3
Todd H. 2002 325i
Matthew J. 2004 WRX STi
Seth K. 1997 328is
Mark K. 1999 M3
Peter K. 1995 325is
Colin K. 1996 328is
Richard K. 2001 325Ci
Parson L. 2005 WRX STi
Dan M. 1991 M3
Kenneth M. 1996 M3
Stephen M. 2001 M3
Joseph M. 2002 330i
David M. 1999 M3
Wayne M. 2001 M3
Romella M. 2002 RSX
David M. 2001 330Ci
Norris M. 1990 M3
Patrick M. 1988 325is
Jeff M. 1989 M3
Roy M. 1995 M3
Gary N. 2003 M3
David O. 1995 M3
Oscar O. 1994 325is
Noah P. 1995 M3
Mark P. 1997 M3
Patrick P. 1989 325ix
Michael P. 2002 RSX
Jeanne P. 1995 M3
Dennis P. 1988 325is
Fitzgerald P. 1997 M3
Vinay R. 1999 M3
Bruce R. 1987 944 Turbo
Steve R. 1997 M3
Jonathan R. 1997 Maxima
Grant S. 2000 M5
Lauren S. 2002 M3
Neil S. 1999 M Coupe
Alan S. 2003 M3
Drew S. 1997 M3
Ted W. 1994 325is
Stanley W. 1988 944TS
Chester W. 2005 Elise
Geoffrey Y. 1994 318i
Randall B. 1995 M3
Jim B. 1987 325is
Douglas B. 2001 M5
Blair B. 2002 M3
Thomas B. 2002 540i
Paul B. 2003 Corvette
Don C. 2005 Corvette
Fred C. 1997 M3
Thai D. 2004 R-32
Charles D. 1995 318ti
William D. 2004 STi
Jim E. 1997 M3
Taylor F. 1998 328i
Marty F. 1996 M3
Todd F. 2002 M3
John G. 1993 M5
Robert H. 1988 M6
Helen H. 1989 325i
Ruhl H. 1999 M3
Todd H. 2002 325i
Matthew J. 2004 WRX STi
Seth K. 1997 328is
Mark K. 1999 M3
Peter K. 1995 325is
Colin K. 1996 328is
Richard K. 2001 325Ci
Parson L. 2005 WRX STi
Dan M. 1991 M3
Kenneth M. 1996 M3
Stephen M. 2001 M3
Joseph M. 2002 330i
David M. 1999 M3
Wayne M. 2001 M3
Romella M. 2002 RSX
David M. 2001 330Ci
Norris M. 1990 M3
Patrick M. 1988 325is
Jeff M. 1989 M3
Roy M. 1995 M3
Gary N. 2003 M3
David O. 1995 M3
Oscar O. 1994 325is
Noah P. 1995 M3
Mark P. 1997 M3
Patrick P. 1989 325ix
Michael P. 2002 RSX
Jeanne P. 1995 M3
Dennis P. 1988 325is
Fitzgerald P. 1997 M3
Vinay R. 1999 M3
Bruce R. 1987 944 Turbo
Steve R. 1997 M3
Jonathan R. 1997 Maxima
Grant S. 2000 M5
Lauren S. 2002 M3
Neil S. 1999 M Coupe
Alan S. 2003 M3
Drew S. 1997 M3
Ted W. 1994 325is
Stanley W. 1988 944TS
Chester W. 2005 Elise
Geoffrey Y. 1994 318i
Last edited:
1996 328ti
Administrator
I guess I still need to work out some bugs.jkuper said:Hmm, and where is my name? I got the email
1996 328ti
Administrator
This is the NCC June 25-26 school at Summit.
I have changed the subject to reflect that and to avoid further confusion.
I have changed the subject to reflect that and to avoid further confusion.
on the track... but my friends would be upset if I bailed on their wedding to spend a day on the track. 1996 328ti said:
So are you saying the wait list is not really used? At what point are instructor assignments made? Can that date be made public?
And why not look at least at allowing refunds if the spot can be filled by someone on the wait list versus flat no refunds. I can see that if the club has an empty slot due to the cancellation that no refund makes sense, and I don't have a problem with that. But no refunds, when the club fills the slot and gets paid for the slot, they are collecting twice. Good deal for the club, not so great for members.
And if the schools fill up with people who are postmarked on the first day, why not have a less than 1 week sign up period? maybe closer to the event. Not everyone can plan months in advance. This is one reason racing is more appealling, I can sign up the day before the race weekend, although with a late fee.
Also, when are people told that they are NOT in the school? It would help to know if the check is destroyed or still floating out there. I can spend the money on other stuff.
Since I have never attended an NCC DE, how many run groups? How many cars per run group?
1996 328ti
Administrator
I do not know to what extent the wait list is use.
As an example we look to have 60 students on the main track, (45 on the JC). The number to accept is based on the number of instructors. For X number of instructors we accept x number of students. This might mean we only accept 50 students. If someone needs to cancel the next person moves up. If we get a few more instructors, more people move off the wait list.
Generally assignments are a couple weeks before the event. They are not public since they can change as late as Saturday morning. Besides it really isn't necessary to know your instructor.
We run 3 groups (20 each). This is to allow movement to the skid pad. 4 run groups would allow more students but less track time.
We are not looking to collect twice. I personally feel that driving schools are so popular that they should break out even.
I don't know how the racing side goes but they don't need to look at experience levels to decide which run group and they don't have to match an instructor to the student. So racing is a bit different.
When some is not accepted to the school their check is discarded. This is one of the reasons checks are not deposited earlier. It looks like we have 88 people who signed up for the June school. It is a lot easier to tear up say 18 checks then cut 18 checks. But then people complain that we did not cash their check and now spent the money because they had money in their checking account. We really can't please everyone. This is another reason that I do not like online payment. I don't think we should hold onto someone's money for 2 or 3 months only to refund it back. Too many chances of error. That is not to say that a check of a waitlisted student whill be deposited. It happens but rarely.
Our schools have not filled up the first day. Any DE I do I send in my application the first day. I understand people don't know if they can make a school months in advance but there are plenty of people who can. Tarheel schools fill up the first day. My postmark was the 2nd day and I was wait listed. One year we made it so that anyone who did not attend a school that year had a priority. What happened was people would look at the 4 posisble weekends and pick one. The end result was attendance was low. We went back to postmark dates.
We do the best we can and make changes every year.
As an example we look to have 60 students on the main track, (45 on the JC). The number to accept is based on the number of instructors. For X number of instructors we accept x number of students. This might mean we only accept 50 students. If someone needs to cancel the next person moves up. If we get a few more instructors, more people move off the wait list.
Generally assignments are a couple weeks before the event. They are not public since they can change as late as Saturday morning. Besides it really isn't necessary to know your instructor.
We run 3 groups (20 each). This is to allow movement to the skid pad. 4 run groups would allow more students but less track time.
We are not looking to collect twice. I personally feel that driving schools are so popular that they should break out even.
I don't know how the racing side goes but they don't need to look at experience levels to decide which run group and they don't have to match an instructor to the student. So racing is a bit different.
When some is not accepted to the school their check is discarded. This is one of the reasons checks are not deposited earlier. It looks like we have 88 people who signed up for the June school. It is a lot easier to tear up say 18 checks then cut 18 checks. But then people complain that we did not cash their check and now spent the money because they had money in their checking account. We really can't please everyone. This is another reason that I do not like online payment. I don't think we should hold onto someone's money for 2 or 3 months only to refund it back. Too many chances of error. That is not to say that a check of a waitlisted student whill be deposited. It happens but rarely.
Our schools have not filled up the first day. Any DE I do I send in my application the first day. I understand people don't know if they can make a school months in advance but there are plenty of people who can. Tarheel schools fill up the first day. My postmark was the 2nd day and I was wait listed. One year we made it so that anyone who did not attend a school that year had a priority. What happened was people would look at the 4 posisble weekends and pick one. The end result was attendance was low. We went back to postmark dates.
We do the best we can and make changes every year.
OwnedbyDuncan
Banned
Drivers Schools
Maybe I am missing something but I always mailed my application for Drivers Schools, herding trials etc so that it got there the day registrations opened. If I really wanted to get into a school or trial I Fedex it so I know it got there the first day. My suggestion is mail it so it gets there the first day registration opens. In the DC area that usually means the day before.
NExt year I probably have to Fedex my entry for the one of North America's biggest herding trial the Blue Grass in May so Duncan and I can go get our asses kicked by the best border collies in the country.
Maybe I am missing something but I always mailed my application for Drivers Schools, herding trials etc so that it got there the day registrations opened. If I really wanted to get into a school or trial I Fedex it so I know it got there the first day. My suggestion is mail it so it gets there the first day registration opens. In the DC area that usually means the day before.
NExt year I probably have to Fedex my entry for the one of North America's biggest herding trial the Blue Grass in May so Duncan and I can go get our asses kicked by the best border collies in the country.
.
1996 328ti
Administrator
I don't know how we are set for corner workers. Email Steve Lowry. From what I understand we will be using BSR corner workers in addition in conjunction with NCC workers.
It is not necessary to send in registration applications overnight.
It is based on postmark. So if it takes 1 day or 5 days you are still on the top of the pile. Those received on the same day are sorted randomly. The database software gives each person a random number and it is sorted that way. I believe in making it as fair as possible. How people are accepted is all in the admissions policy.
It is not necessary to send in registration applications overnight.
It is based on postmark. So if it takes 1 day or 5 days you are still on the top of the pile. Those received on the same day are sorted randomly. The database software gives each person a random number and it is sorted that way. I believe in making it as fair as possible. How people are accepted is all in the admissions policy.
Steve,
Thanks for the info.
One thing, you say that student/instructor assignments are sometimes changed up to Sat morning. Earlier you stated that you could not fill opened slots (from cancellations) because the instructors were already assigned. These two don't quite match.
Also, I was asking that if the cutoff for pulling from the wait list is when instructor assignments are made, then publsih the DATE that is to happen, so that those on the wait list can get on with thier lives. I understand not publishing the actual assignments.
WRT collecting twice, has to do with cancellations. If I sign up, and cancel 3 weeks prior, and you fill the slot, why should I have to pay (not get a refund)? I can understand late cancellations that do not allow a slot to be filled.
It is great that so many people can plan ahead, but some of us can't. I was SURE I was going to make last Sunday's autoX at FedEx. But last Monday (once I arrived in Kenya) I found out I would not be getting home from Kenya until today. So no autoX. If it had been a DE, I would have been out some $350. NOT a good thing.
You are correct, racing doesn't have to deal with experience levels for run groups. And I was not intending to imply that they were similar. But, racing's flexibility better suits my job situation at this time. I can sign up at the last minute, and I can cancel at the last minute (without penalty, as long as I haven't turned a wheel on the track).
And for those who want just track time, get/buy/build/rent a race car, get your license and the day before most events is an open practice day. Show up with a legal car, current license, pay your fee, and get some 5 sessions of open track time, with unlimited passing. And you don't even have to attend the race. You can even do practice at National events with only a Regional license.
Rental race cars available include Spec Racer Fords, Formula SCCA, Radical sport racers, and GT Pinto cars in WDC region.
But every so often I will toss in an application for an NCC DE, but no longer expect to get in.
Thanks for the info.
One thing, you say that student/instructor assignments are sometimes changed up to Sat morning. Earlier you stated that you could not fill opened slots (from cancellations) because the instructors were already assigned. These two don't quite match.
Also, I was asking that if the cutoff for pulling from the wait list is when instructor assignments are made, then publsih the DATE that is to happen, so that those on the wait list can get on with thier lives. I understand not publishing the actual assignments.
WRT collecting twice, has to do with cancellations. If I sign up, and cancel 3 weeks prior, and you fill the slot, why should I have to pay (not get a refund)? I can understand late cancellations that do not allow a slot to be filled.
It is great that so many people can plan ahead, but some of us can't. I was SURE I was going to make last Sunday's autoX at FedEx. But last Monday (once I arrived in Kenya) I found out I would not be getting home from Kenya until today. So no autoX. If it had been a DE, I would have been out some $350. NOT a good thing.
You are correct, racing doesn't have to deal with experience levels for run groups. And I was not intending to imply that they were similar. But, racing's flexibility better suits my job situation at this time. I can sign up at the last minute, and I can cancel at the last minute (without penalty, as long as I haven't turned a wheel on the track).
And for those who want just track time, get/buy/build/rent a race car, get your license and the day before most events is an open practice day. Show up with a legal car, current license, pay your fee, and get some 5 sessions of open track time, with unlimited passing. And you don't even have to attend the race.
You can even do practice at National events with only a Regional license.Rental race cars available include Spec Racer Fords, Formula SCCA, Radical sport racers, and GT Pinto cars in WDC region.
But every so often I will toss in an application for an NCC DE, but no longer expect to get in.
1996 328ti
Administrator
If an instructor doesn't show up on Saturday the assignment is going to change. It is a huge task making the assignments which needs to be done once with as little interference as possible.
I don't think the chief instructor will know what the cutoff date will be.
If there are two additional instructors 4 more students can be accepted. Some chapters have instructors that are wait listed. We do not have that luxury.
If you toss your application in the mail the first day you will get in. Unfortunately the nature of driving schools is that you must plan way ahead. We are no different than the other chapters I belong to.
I don't think the chief instructor will know what the cutoff date will be.
If there are two additional instructors 4 more students can be accepted. Some chapters have instructors that are wait listed. We do not have that luxury.
If you toss your application in the mail the first day you will get in. Unfortunately the nature of driving schools is that you must plan way ahead. We are no different than the other chapters I belong to.
Steven -
What about doing something like NASA or other groups do (see my post in the VIR thread) .... they charge a processing/handling fee of $30.00 if you cancel your registration one week prior to the event. Thus, if it is later than one week, then no refund.
Might this not work with NCC? Charge people a processing fee -- but, at the same time, they get back $320.00 vs. $0.00 ... and, with one week before the event, it should allow time to fill in the spots since NCC events are pretty popular with people. If you get someone to fill your slot and it is one week before the event -- could this proposal work?
What about doing something like NASA or other groups do (see my post in the VIR thread) .... they charge a processing/handling fee of $30.00 if you cancel your registration one week prior to the event. Thus, if it is later than one week, then no refund.
Might this not work with NCC? Charge people a processing fee -- but, at the same time, they get back $320.00 vs. $0.00 ... and, with one week before the event, it should allow time to fill in the spots since NCC events are pretty popular with people. If you get someone to fill your slot and it is one week before the event -- could this proposal work?
AlfaEric
New member
The problem with moving the date up and allowing people to drop out is it creates a lot more work for the registrar (who is already going to be busy). Contacting people a week before the event doesn't leave much time for them to confirm and get their car inspected. I believe NCC also typically mails out packets that I doubt would reach the new student in time.NoSoup4U said:
---Eric
I'll volunteer to undertake this effort re: handling the refunds and assisting the registrar since I would like to see this new policy take effect.
How about 7 business days before the event. This way, the registration packets can be mailed out 1.5 weeks before the event -- saving money on costs. It should only take 2 days, at the latest, to get to people.
Put that information on the sign-up .. e.g., registration packets should arrive 5 business days before the event with all pertinent information. If people are wait-listed, then, I will have their phone number and contact them to fill a spot when it opens. They'll have one day to respond to my voicemail/contact. If not, next person. I've talked to other clubs and they said the amount of people that actually withdraw is surprisingly few ... maybe 10% will withdraw -- which, in the grand scheme of things -- is not that many ...
Consider we accept 60 and at least 20 more are on the waitlist. I think we could fill those 6 slots fairly easily.
I am not saying contact ALL the people one week for the event ... What I am suggesting is that as soon as we hit the max. number allowed ... IMMEDIATELY notify all of them that they have been accepted and can tech their vehicles well before the event. However, registration packets assigning an instructor, run group, etc ... will all be mailed out one week before the event. The tech inspection form we should make available on this site for the people to download and bring to their mechanic.
How about 7 business days before the event. This way, the registration packets can be mailed out 1.5 weeks before the event -- saving money on costs. It should only take 2 days, at the latest, to get to people.
Put that information on the sign-up .. e.g., registration packets should arrive 5 business days before the event with all pertinent information. If people are wait-listed, then, I will have their phone number and contact them to fill a spot when it opens. They'll have one day to respond to my voicemail/contact. If not, next person. I've talked to other clubs and they said the amount of people that actually withdraw is surprisingly few ... maybe 10% will withdraw -- which, in the grand scheme of things -- is not that many ...
Consider we accept 60 and at least 20 more are on the waitlist. I think we could fill those 6 slots fairly easily.
I am not saying contact ALL the people one week for the event ... What I am suggesting is that as soon as we hit the max. number allowed ... IMMEDIATELY notify all of them that they have been accepted and can tech their vehicles well before the event. However, registration packets assigning an instructor, run group, etc ... will all be mailed out one week before the event. The tech inspection form we should make available on this site for the people to download and bring to their mechanic.
AlfaEric
New member
We might only have 10% dropping out but I don't think they can just grab the next registration that came in. They have to match it up with the run group. Allowing more flexibility and less penalties for dropping out will dramatically increase that percentage. Sending things out in bulk and organizing people in batches saves a ton of time. Every time someone drops out of an autox slot, it takes me a lot more time to replace them than it did to originally register most of the rest of their heat.
The problem with calling and letting people have 1 day to respond is if you get multiple people who don't respond you can easily approach the event date and it will be too late to fill that slot.
I agree that much of the paperwork and notification could be put on the web and that could save some time. As more things are automated I think the process will be adjusted to accomodate the members better. I just wouldn't expect things to change too fast. A little progress will be made from each event.
---Eric
The problem with calling and letting people have 1 day to respond is if you get multiple people who don't respond you can easily approach the event date and it will be too late to fill that slot.
I agree that much of the paperwork and notification could be put on the web and that could save some time. As more things are automated I think the process will be adjusted to accomodate the members better. I just wouldn't expect things to change too fast. A little progress will be made from each event.
---Eric