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mcoupemindy
01-31-2009, 11:41 PM
There have been MANY changes for this year. Thank you to everyone who provided input and assistance with developing a fair, well rounded, easy to understand classing system.

http://www.nccbmwcca.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=41&Itemid=166

woodym3
02-01-2009, 10:32 AM
Personal message sent.

ea-sport
02-01-2009, 11:42 AM
Great work in modifying and clarifying the classing Jonathan. Just one quick question, the rule on tires for Showroom and Tuner class basically renders some of the popular ST tires (e.g, Bridgestone RE-01R, the new Kumho Ecsta XS, and the Yoko Advan Neova) illegal since their treadwear rating is below 200 right?

This basically leaves BFG T/A KD, Dunlop Direzza Z1 * Spec, Hankook RS-2, and Kumho Ecsta MX (acccording to TireRack website these tires have treadwear rating of 200 or higher) for Showroom and Tuner class.

mcoupemindy
02-01-2009, 12:14 PM
Sorry guys - that was a typo! 210+ rated tires are permitted in Showroom (only stock size and location), 140+ tires are permitted in Tuner (unlimited size), and Modified only requires that the tires carry a DOT rating.

Any ENTHUSIAST running pure slicks (non-DOT) has to go play in Unlimited.

mcoupemindy
02-01-2009, 12:22 PM
I also added another line clarifying sway bars. Sway bars may be upgraded and/or removed in Tuner, but must retain stock mounting points.

Biggins
02-02-2009, 03:25 PM
Can we upclass this year along the same line to qualify for points if we know changes will be made to your car mid-season? (run street tires in Modified for first two events, then DOT R-comps next three events, etc.) I'm not talking about a T3 car running in the M2 class, but more along the lines of a T# car running in their respective M# class.

mcoupemindy
02-02-2009, 03:35 PM
Can we upclass this year along the same line to qualify for points if we know changes will be made to your car mid-season? (run street tires in Modified for first two events, then DOT R-comps next three events, etc.) I'm not talking about a T3 car running in the M2 class, but more along the lines of a T# car running in their respective M# class.

No rules against that! For example a T2 car may run in M2 without consequence (other than being an underdog!).

Scany
02-02-2009, 09:08 PM
Good job Jonathan!

gbauer
02-02-2009, 09:58 PM
...no that's not an M50 manifold... :icon_pape

Nice job. Looks good and looks like I have plenty of room to grow...

gnhovis
02-02-2009, 11:58 PM
What, no MINI? Last time I checked, the sill plate read "Mfd by Bayerische Motoren Werke..." I'm just askin'.... :cool:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3041/3249829074_04889548d0.jpg?v=0

mcoupemindy
02-03-2009, 12:17 AM
What, no MINI? Last time I checked, the sill plate read "Mfd by Bayerische Motoren Werke..." I'm just askin'.... :cool:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3041/3249829074_04889548d0.jpg?v=0

Three years ago we tried running a Mini class, but it wasn't well attended and therefore dropped the following year.

If you can show that there would be a good interest in a Mini class, I think that it could be considered.

woodym3
02-03-2009, 10:24 AM
I imagine George was asking about considering the Mini as a BMW model to be classed within the BMWs.

mcoupemindy
02-03-2009, 10:27 AM
I imagine George was asking about considering the Mini as a BMW model to be classed within the BMWs.

Interesting ...

What group would the different variations fit into? I'm completely stupid about the Mini's.

Help?

gnhovis
02-03-2009, 05:01 PM
Interesting ...

What group would the different variations fit into? I'm completely stupid about the Mini's.

Help?

I wrote up this long thing and never sent it doooh!

Exactly, that's all I'm asking. Given the categories you listed you could spread the MINIs across 3 of them. Normally aspirated Cooper Coupes and Clubmen (Clubmans?) into Group 4. Turbo and Supercharged Cooper S Coupes and Clubmen into Group 3. And JCW cars into Group 2. I compare the Cooper to the 318; Cooper S to E30 M3 or 325is; and the JCW cars to the E36 M3. I think that matches your groupings (I don't have it in front of me). Most MINI owners who autocross are probably in your Modified class due to ECU tuning and reduction pulleys, at least on the supercharged cars.

I think most MINI owners in the CCA want to feel like they belong in the club. I know the previous system where I had to run "non-BMW R Comp" class sort of turned me off and I started to run with the CDC where there are routinely 4-6 MINIs in each event.

With MINI sales up 29% for 2008 and BMW sales down 40%, this is one area for growth for the club. If no one shows up, then no loss, but if MINIs do show, at least they can compete. Sort of like the hearty souls who autocross in a 7-series.

That's all anyone can ask for really.

mf44
02-04-2009, 05:51 PM
I'd like to see the MINI in there, too. I'm no autox fiend, but it'd be nice to be classed reasonably competitively (and I'm sure it'd sway me from some of the CDC events).

ea-sport
02-04-2009, 10:41 PM
Turbo and Supercharged Cooper S Coupes and Clubmen into Group 3. ; Cooper S to E30 M3 or 325is;

I hate to turn this into an online debate on classing but I thought that I need to put in my two cents. Last year, stock non-M E36 and E46 were classed in Showroom B (SB) which I believe to some extent becomes Group 3 this year (feel free to correct me if I am wrong). Considering how well MINIs performed in SCCA autocross, it's kinda hard to see the porky E36 and E46 compete against Turbo or Supercharged MINIs. I understand your comparison of E30 M3 to Cooper S but looking at last year's result most cars competed in SB were E46s (including mine:biggrin:). I am sure if a stock E30 M3 were to show up, assuming equivalent drivers skill, the E30 M3 would eat the non M E36 and E46s everyday. However, I personally think that in our autocross there is a higher chance of Showroom classed MINIs showing up than Showroom classed E30 M3.

Having said that, whatever you guys decide I'll still go to NCCBMWCCA autocross since you guys are more laid back and I am not that competitive anyway :biggrin:. I just want to know that at least I am competitively classed and if I still lose it's because the nut job behind the steering wheel not because I don't have a chance. That's all guys.

hoyabmw
02-08-2009, 10:12 AM
I hate to turn this into an online debate on classing but I thought that I need to put in my two cents. Last year, stock non-M E36 and E46 were classed in Showroom B (SB) which I believe to some extent becomes Group 3 this year (feel free to correct me if I am wrong). Considering how well MINIs performed in SCCA autocross, it's kinda hard to see the porky E36 and E46 compete against Turbo or Supercharged MINIs. I understand your comparison of E30 M3 to Cooper S but looking at last year's result most cars competed in SB were E46s (including mine:biggrin:). I am sure if a stock E30 M3 were to show up, assuming equivalent drivers skill, the E30 M3 would eat the non M E36 and E46s everyday. However, I personally think that in our autocross there is a higher chance of Showroom classed MINIs showing up than Showroom classed E30 M3.


Keep in mind, at SCCA, E36 and E46 6 cyls are classed in DS, Minis are GS or HS, so they should be slower. I think you're seeing some of the allowances for SCCA's so called 'Stock' classing coming in to play that we don't allow in showroom. And you are very unlikely to find an E30 M3 that could still qualify for showroom and would actually get autocrossed.

That said, I hope the club can support 12 classes. It was hard to support 6 and get enough people actually running to make any of the classes interesting.

gbauer
02-08-2009, 09:25 PM
Keep in mind, at SCCA, E36 and E46 6 cyls are classed in DS, Minis are GS or HS, so they should be slower. I think you're seeing some of the allowances for SCCA's so called 'Stock' classing coming in to play that we don't allow in showroom. And you are very unlikely to find an E30 M3 that could still qualify for showroom and would actually get autocrossed.

That said, I hope the club can support 12 classes. It was hard to support 6 and get enough people actually running to make any of the classes interesting.
No, no, no! You're doing it wrong! We need about 239 classes so everyone can get a first place trophy! See, it's just like the kiddies get in soccer now-a-days! That way, nobody's a loser!


I don't really care as long as I'm in Jonathan's class so I can beat him this year. :p

mcoupemindy
02-11-2009, 11:28 PM
Mini classing added.

Please note: Mini's must play by the same rules as the BMW's. This means that the common practice of swapping a smaller diameter supercharger pulley will AUTOMATICALLY place a vehicle into unlimited. Also, if aftermarket software is installed on a forced induction MINI, it will be bumped to modified.

mf44
02-12-2009, 09:55 AM
Mini classing added.

Please note: Mini's must play by the same rules as the BMW's. This means that the common practice of swapping a smaller diameter supercharger pulley will AUTOMATICALLY place a vehicle into unlimited. Also, if aftermarket software is installed on a forced induction MINI, it will be bumped to modified.

Yay! This is good news. Now I just need to get me some OEM size tires to stay in stock class.

Car54
02-12-2009, 01:03 PM
Not just size, but treadwear rating above 210 as well.

Also Jonathan, you probably didn't realize this but it is great that you can run a strut bar in stock class, especially for Mini's since most need some type of reinforcement on the strut towers.

gnhovis
02-12-2009, 05:13 PM
Thanks, Jonathan. It's good to have to be classed, even if it's "unlimited" in my case....

Nick325xiT 5spd
03-16-2009, 09:34 PM
Is there some reason why a properly prepared SCCA ST car is prevented from running in the "Tuner" category? The class allowances are close, but there are key differences (like seats) that would stop that.

(And as a side note, why that awful name?)

woodym3
03-17-2009, 07:11 AM
(And as a side note, why that awful name?)

We didn't mean to offend Nick. We wanted a single word description between "showroom" and "modified". "Prepared" would have caused too much confusion with SCCA rules. SCCA rules were not considered when our new ones were established, but I agree that an SCCA ST car should be able to fit our Tuner category. We didn't want to use "modified" either, but couldn't think of any better descriptive word.

mcoupemindy
03-17-2009, 07:32 AM
We didn't mean to offend Nick. We wanted a single word description between "showroom" and "modified". "Prepared" would have caused too much confusion with SCCA rules. SCCA rules were not considered when our new ones were established, but I agree that an SCCA ST car should be able to fit our Tuner category. We didn't want to use "modified" either, but couldn't think of any better descriptive word.

The classing will be revisited for the 2010 season (if necessary) - it is final for the 2009 season.

Car54
03-17-2009, 09:35 PM
Would "tricked out" be better?

mcoupemindy
03-18-2009, 06:08 AM
Would "tricked out" be better?

"Yo, my car's so pimp. It rolls in Tricked Out 2." :icon_lala

Nick325xiT 5spd
03-18-2009, 09:27 AM
Would "tricked out" be better?
"Equipped" is better in my book if you have to stay away from "Prepared."

Out of curiosity, why was the SCCA Stock allowance taken out of the middle class? Performance is essentially equivalent and it would be nice not to exclude people who are relatively serious about it. (Although, I have to admit that the rules seem almost as if they were specifically written to ensure that any fully prepped SCCA car will choose not to run with BMW.)

mcoupemindy
03-18-2009, 09:38 AM
"Equipped" is better in my book if you have to stay away from "Prepared."

Out of curiosity, why was the SCCA Stock allowance taken out of the middle class? Performance is essentially equivalent and it would be nice not to exclude people who are relatively serious about it. (Although, I have to admit that the rules seem almost as if they were specifically written to ensure that any fully prepped SCCA car will choose not to run with BMW.)

The annual meeting was open to everyone ...

Those who showed up had a huge voice in the classing system.

If you're concerned about it, we will hold another meeting in Dec '09 / Jan '10. Until then, you can moan, groan and complain as much as you want. However, it's not going to change anything. I suggest that you make notes in what you think should be changed. Keep those notes and show up for the meeting.

Remember, the BMW program is about having fun which is a great relief from the Ultra $$$ competitiveness of SCCA events.

Nick325xiT 5spd
03-18-2009, 10:21 AM
The annual meeting was open to everyone ...

Those who showed up had a huge voice in the classing system.

If you're concerned about it, we will hold another meeting in Dec '09 / Jan '10. Until then, you can moan, groan and complain as much as you want. However, it's not going to change anything. I suggest that you make notes in what you think should be changed. Keep those notes and show up for the meeting.

Remember, the BMW program is about having fun which is a great relief from the Ultra $$$ competitiveness of SCCA events.
I do not expect the rules to get changed for this season. It is, however, useful to have *other* people thinking about the rules as we go along.

...and to be quite frank, after having argued at a previous autox meeting for the SCCA allowances, I'm rather surprised to see that they were taken out.

(Also, the cost argument for NCC classing is specious - a maxed out "Tuner" car would cost at least as much to build, and throwing everyone else into an unlimited class certainly doesn't do much for cost containment.)

mcoupemindy
03-18-2009, 10:33 AM
...and to be quite frank, after having argued at a previous autox meeting for the SCCA allowances, I'm rather surprised to see that they were taken out.

They were taken out because they were downright confusing ... (reminds me of everything the SCCA does ...) "Either/or" rules are not conductive to bringing in new members and new faces. Simplicity is key to running a successful marque program. We are not the SCCA and never want to be. Our classing system is for us, the NCCBMWCCA, and we will continue to class cars in a way to develop our program and let people enjoy, without overcomplication, the sport of autocross.

Nick325xiT 5spd
03-18-2009, 10:38 AM
They were taken out because they were downright confusing ... (reminds me of everything the SCCA does ...) "Either/or" rules are not conductive to bringing in new members and new faces. Simplicity is key to running a successful marque program. We are not the SCCA and never want to be. Our classing system is for us, the NCCBMWCCA, and we will continue to class cars in a way to develop our program and let people enjoy, without overcomplication, the sport of autocross.
It is? What's so complicated about saying "if you're an SCCA Stock competitor, you go here, otherwise, read the following?"

mcoupemindy
03-18-2009, 10:43 AM
It is? What's so complicated about saying "if you're an SCCA Stock competitor, you go here, otherwise, read the following?"

It's an either/or rule - see again my previous post.

SCCA stock is NOT stock ... that's the point. We felt that a fully prepared "Stock" SCCA vehicle is best suited to our Modified category. And if you don't want to run Modified, put street tires on it and run it in Tuner.

Nick325xiT 5spd
03-18-2009, 11:30 AM
It's an either/or rule - see again my previous post.

SCCA stock is NOT stock ... that's the point. We felt that a fully prepared "Stock" SCCA vehicle is best suited to our Modified category. And if you don't want to run Modified, put street tires on it and run it in Tuner.
On what basis? An SCCA Stock car will run the same times as an SCCA ST car, and a fully built "Tuner" car will be faster than an SCCA ST car. I mean, unlimited intake manifolds? Really? I get that you guys wanted to allow M50 swaps, but that is not how you should word it. Full spherical bearings? Carbon fiber body panels? I mean, hell, the rules as they are written currently allow you to make massive changes in suspension geometry (track width, roll center, bump steer - you know, custom front control arms).

mcoupemindy
03-18-2009, 11:33 AM
On what basis? An SCCA Stock car will run the same times as an SCCA ST car, and a fully built "Tuner" car will be faster than an SCCA ST car. I mean, unlimited intake manifolds? Really? I get that you guys wanted to allow M50 swaps, but that is not how you should word it. Full spherical bearings? Carbon fiber body panels? I mean, hell, the rules as they are written currently allow you to make massive changes in suspension geometry (track width, roll center, bump steer - you know, custom front control arms).

Nick, if you know everything, then please, run the program ...

woodym3
03-18-2009, 01:54 PM
On what basis? An SCCA Stock car will run the same times as an SCCA ST car, and a fully built "Tuner" car will be faster than an SCCA ST car. I mean, unlimited intake manifolds? Really? I get that you guys wanted to allow M50 swaps, but that is not how you should word it. Full spherical bearings? Carbon fiber body panels? I mean, hell, the rules as they are written currently allow you to make massive changes in suspension geometry (track width, roll center, bump steer - you know, custom front control arms).

I seriously doubt any of us will be spending the bucks to fully build a "Tuner" car for NCC autocrossing. The intent is to capture as many members as possible who have done normal changes to their cars for fun street and driver school use. Many SCCA autocross (Solo) competitors are far more serious, aspire to National level competition in other parts of the country, and often trailer their "stock" cars to events. But you knew that, right Nick?

JimHarris
03-19-2009, 01:24 PM
Nice to see NCC move the MINI into its main line classes after all this time.

I ran mine for two years in X Class, and then sold the car, so it's too late for me, but a nice break for other competitors. Autoxing is more fun when you can compete for something.

Cheers,

Jim Harris

Bob
03-20-2009, 06:57 AM
It's an either/or rule - see again my previous post.

SCCA stock is NOT stock ... that's the point. We felt that a fully prepared "Stock" SCCA vehicle is best suited to our Modified category. And if you don't want to run Modified, put street tires on it and run it in Tuner.

Amen, The SCCA "stock" class rules got bent so badly over the years that a new "stock" class was created, the ST groups, with a tire treadwear restriction. btw, we prefer to be called enthusiasts, not "wackjobs"!lol

mcoupemindy
03-20-2009, 07:01 AM
btw, we prefer to be called enthusiasts, not "wackjobs"!lol

I corrected my previous post JUST for you ... :icon_drun

Biggins
03-20-2009, 10:27 AM
There is no way to make everyone happy with all the different classing systems of SCCA, NASA, NCC, BMWCCA National, etc. whether the competition be club, pro racing or autocross. I agree it was convenient that the old system allowed an ST and an SCCA "stock" car in the same class, but I think this system will be more novice-friendly. In my opinion, most novices with NCC do not initially run SCCA events. Many of us do regularly run SCCA, but I don't see the need to explicity follow the SCCA model.

I only have a few tweaks I would have liked to seen within the "Tuner" class. I don't exactly agree with prohibiting fixed back seats and only allowing bolt in rollbars, and I don't agree with no rear coilovers. However, my car has none of those modifications which makes it irrelevant for me.

I'm also anxious to see how close the times are this season for Group 1 and Group 2 cars.

Let's just have the season begin and see how things go!

Nick325xiT 5spd
03-20-2009, 04:42 PM
There is no way to make everyone happy with all the different classing systems of SCCA, NASA, NCC, BMWCCA National, etc. whether the competition be club, pro racing or autocross. I agree it was convenient that the old system allowed an ST and an SCCA "stock" car in the same class, but I think this system will be more novice-friendly. In my opinion, most novices with NCC do not initially run SCCA events. Many of us do regularly run SCCA, but I don't see the need to explicity follow the SCCA model.

I only have a few tweaks I would have liked to seen within the "Tuner" class. I don't exactly agree with prohibiting fixed back seats and only allowing bolt in rollbars, and I don't agree with no rear coilovers. However, my car has none of those modifications which makes it irrelevant for me.

I'm also anxious to see how close the times are this season for Group 1 and Group 2 cars.

Let's just have the season begin and see how things go!
No fixed back seats is a silly rule. All you need to do is specify a minimum seat weight.

Rear coilovers should not be allowed in any class that does not allow for massive reinforcement of the rear suspension mount points.

SamB325es
03-20-2009, 08:05 PM
I have done the SCCA thing with Autocrossers-inc and SCCA. I have more fun in the BMWCCA events.
Classing is somewhat irrelevant. If you want to win national championships than concentrate on SCCA and come practice with BMWCCA. If you are worried about winning the NCCBMWCCA autocross championship and feel cheated by the classing check your priorities.
My $.02.

mcoupemindy
03-20-2009, 09:55 PM
I have done the SCCA thing with Autocrossers-inc and SCCA. I have more fun in the BMWCCA events.
Classing is somewhat irrelevant. If you want to win national championships than concentrate on SCCA and come practice with BMWCCA. If you are worried about winning the NCCBMWCCA autocross championship and feel cheated by the classing check your priorities.
My $.02.

Thanks :biggrin:

gbauer
03-22-2009, 12:09 AM
Thanks :biggrin:
can't you just put me in a class all by myself so I win a trophy this year? :biggrin:

mcoupemindy
03-22-2009, 05:58 AM
can't you just put me in a class all by myself so I win a trophy this year? :biggrin:

Learn to be a better driver ...

forrealb50
03-22-2009, 05:38 PM
I signed up with the club and autox event yesterday. I recently purchased a 2006 325xi and I can't wait to drive it in something other than bumper-to-bumper traffic.

Anyone think it's weird to autox an automatic? I was planning on using the sport mode. On the streets it really transforms the car. The way it holds the shift points and down shift it really feels like it's a 6 speed.

woodym3
03-22-2009, 06:14 PM
can't you just put me in a class all by myself so I win a trophy this year? :biggrin:

Everyone wants that George. It's called I-class.

Car54
03-22-2009, 08:08 PM
I signed up with the club and autox event yesterday. I recently purchased a 2006 325xi and I can't wait to drive it in something other than bumper-to-bumper traffic.

Anyone think it's weird to autox an automatic? I was planning on using the sport mode. On the streets it really transforms the car. The way it holds the shift points and down shift it really feels like it's a 6 speed.

No, Biggins does it and does damn good!


Everyone wants that George. It's called I-class.

Do you mean SM2??

SamB325es
03-22-2009, 08:24 PM
No, Biggins does it and does damn good!



Biggins is a punk!

Biggins
03-23-2009, 11:21 AM
Biggins is a punk!
I've been told I do things intentionally to irritate people. :)

I'm still contemplating running T3 just for kicks this year. :confused:

Reach
03-23-2009, 02:13 PM
When does registration for this weekend close? Trying to convince a friend to sign up still...

Nick325xiT 5spd
03-23-2009, 03:58 PM
I signed up with the club and autox event yesterday. I recently purchased a 2006 325xi and I can't wait to drive it in something other than bumper-to-bumper traffic.

Anyone think it's weird to autox an automatic? I was planning on using the sport mode. On the streets it really transforms the car. The way it holds the shift points and down shift it really feels like it's a 6 speed.
SCCA autox national championships have been won with automatics. In a BMW, it's not optimal, but it's not something you're going to get kicked out for. There are plenty of people who autox automatics, some of whom are very fast.

Car54
03-23-2009, 04:00 PM
Also rental cars occasionally show up to autox! :)

gbauer
03-23-2009, 04:15 PM
Also rental cars occasionally show up to autox! :)
ssshhhhh!!!! :mad: :tongue:

gbauer
03-23-2009, 04:16 PM
Learn to be a better driver ...
That mod costs too much in time and tickets...

SamB325es
03-23-2009, 06:08 PM
I'm still contemplating running T3 just for kicks this year. :confused:

Tough choice Biggins, embarass drivers of 6cyl. and M cars by getting beat by a 4cyl. automatic
or
good chance of collecting trophy

choices...

mcoupemindy
03-23-2009, 06:12 PM
When does registration for this weekend close? Trying to convince a friend to sign up still...

Thursday, however, I reserve the option to keep it open longer.

mcoupemindy
03-23-2009, 06:14 PM
Tough choice Biggins, embarass drivers of 6cyl. and M cars by getting beat by a 4cyl. automatic


Respect is worth 100 trophies ...

gbauer
03-24-2009, 03:45 PM
Respect is worth 100 trophies ...
Ask any racer, any real racer. It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile; winning's winning. :tongue:

forrealb50
03-24-2009, 04:01 PM
SCCA autox national championships have been won with automatics. In a BMW, it's not optimal, but it's not something you're going to get kicked out for. There are plenty of people who autox automatics, some of whom are very fast.

Thanks for the input. You just made my day!

forrealb50
03-24-2009, 06:27 PM
My BMW didn’t come with the optional 17” rim and the sports suspension from the factory. If I added the bigger BMW wheels and the sport springs and shocks would I still be in the “S” class?

Car54
03-24-2009, 10:44 PM
My BMW didn’t come with the optional 17” rim and the sports suspension from the factory. If I added the bigger BMW wheels and the sport springs and shocks would I still be in the “S” class?

That's a good question...although my car came with the sports package, I'm interested in the answer.

Zcruizer
03-26-2009, 01:57 PM
Mr Thayer,
What do we do with this rain on Saturday? Looks like the first heat might start, and maybe finish, before it starts raining. I'm on the P.M. side and it could be raining. Being new to the "sport", I'm not sure if we run in the rain. Personally, it sounds like it's more fun. If it's already explained somewhere just point me in that direction. thanks

mcoupemindy
03-26-2009, 02:00 PM
Mr Thayer,
What do we do with this rain on Saturday? Looks like the first heat might start, and maybe finish, before it starts raining. I'm on the P.M. side and it could be raining. Being new to the "sport", I'm not sure if we run in the rain. Personally, it sounds like it's more fun. If it's already explained somewhere just point me in that direction. thanks

We run rain or shine ...

Nothing short of a monsoon will keep us from running ...

woodym3
03-26-2009, 02:42 PM
Mr Thayer,
What do we do with this rain on Saturday? Looks like the first heat might start, and maybe finish, before it starts raining. I'm on the P.M. side and it could be raining. Being new to the "sport", I'm not sure if we run in the rain. Personally, it sounds like it's more fun. If it's already explained somewhere just point me in that direction. thanks

See posts #68 thru "76 at http://forum.nccbmwcca.org/showthread.php?t=4850&page=5

mcoupemindy
03-26-2009, 03:37 PM
My BMW didn’t come with the optional 17” rim and the sports suspension from the factory. If I added the bigger BMW wheels and the sport springs and shocks would I still be in the “S” class?

Forgot to answer this one too:

If the wheels and suspension items were FACTORY options on his model, it is permissible to interchange.

BMWNA's recent offerings of "high performance dealer installed" items are a different, and are not permitted as a showroom allowance.

(and a big thanks to my counsel who assists me with these decisions!)

woodym3
03-26-2009, 04:45 PM
Forgot to answer this one too:

If the wheels and suspension items were FACTORY options on his model, it is permissible to interchange.



And this is a welcome difference from the SCCA's inane stock class requirement that every other item that came with a sports package needs to be added to the car (items such as leather seats, heated mirrors, fog lights, etc.)

pseto
03-26-2009, 07:11 PM
Forgot to answer this one too:

If the wheels and suspension items were FACTORY options on his model, it is permissible to interchange.

BMWNA's recent offerings of "high performance dealer installed" items are a different, and are not permitted as a showroom allowance.

(and a big thanks to my counsel who assists me with these decisions!)

i could have sworn that IE subframe bushings came as a factory option :D

mcoupemindy
03-26-2009, 09:12 PM
i could have sworn that IE subframe bushings came as a factory option :D

We wouldn't have all the subframe problems then. That obviously wouldn't be good.

joenationwide
04-06-2009, 09:48 AM
I noticed a couple controversial items that move you from "Tuner" to "Modified".

1. Fixed back seats
2. LTW Flywheel

These two mods are clearly in the spirit of "tuner" mods. More importantly, these two mods do not give significant advantage/time improvement in an autox. The LTW flywheel is a very popular mod, and I'd hate to see people get thrown into a Modified Race Tire class who basically have a full street car.

I know its not easy to make a perfect rule set, but these should definately not move people from Tuner to Modified.

mcoupemindy
04-06-2009, 09:53 AM
I noticed a couple controversial items that move you from "Tuner" to "Modified".

1. Fixed back seats
2. LTW Flywheel

These two mods are clearly in the spirit of "tuner" mods. More importantly, these two mods do not give significant advantage/time improvement in an autox. The LTW flywheel is a very popular mod, and I'd hate to see people get thrown into a Modified Race Tire class who basically have a full street car.

I know its not easy to make a perfect rule set, but these should definately not move people from Tuner to Modified.

Hi Scott,

The rules will stand as is for the remainder of the season. We can't change rules in the middle of the season - just not fair since we already started. We will have another autocross meeting (classing discussion / revision) before the 2010 season, please note your points and we'll visit them then!

Thanks for your constructive feedback!!!