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white911
06-25-2008, 11:13 PM
Space available in the White and Red run groups July 12 & 13 Summit Point (main course).

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. Hope to see you at a future event. If you are interested in participating please make your intentions known as early as possible. Reply by email to Charlie and me -- DERegistrar@<hidden> (DERegistrar@<hidden>) and DEChair@<hidden> (DEChair@<hidden>)

Alan --

woodym3
06-26-2008, 07:12 AM
Perhaps you should explain how your colors relate to level of experience. Most BMWCCA people are used to A, B, C, D.

Real M3
06-26-2008, 07:24 AM
Woody from one of Alan's other postings, a description of the color breakout. One thing from their site page, they emphatically state that they only accept Porsches in their schools. Has this been waived for the 12-13 SPR event?

For help in understanding our run groups; I put together some data from our last years VIR event. We have five run groups; Green (Instructed - Beginners); Blue (Instructed - Novice); White (Intermediate); Black (Advanced-Instructor); Red (same as Black - faster cars and/or more experience). The call for participants is for all run groups. Club Racers participants can be found in White through Red and clearly the number of days is not a requirement for progression through to White, many exceptional drivers have moved through the ranks with minimum time in each group. It is generally not the case. In the data I provided I dropped the high and the low numbers to arrive at the range.

By run group and number of track days (average) range

Green - 16 days - range 1 to 50 (largest concentration 8 - 25)

Blue - 32 days - range 12 to 81 (largest concentration 29 - 36)

White - 61 days - range 24 to 132 (largest concentration 36 - 69, some cup cars)

Black - 110 days - range 42 to 275 (largest concentration 77 - 160, several cup cars)

Red - 215 days - range 75 to 1006 (many cup cars)

mcoupemindy
06-26-2008, 08:32 AM
Woody from one of Alan's other postings, a description of the color breakout. One thing from their site page, they emphatically state that they only accept Porsches in their schools. Has this been waived for the 12-13 SPR event?

For help in understanding our run groups; I put together some data from our last years VIR event. We have five run groups; Green (Instructed - Beginners); Blue (Instructed - Novice); White (Intermediate); Black (Advanced-Instructor); Red (same as Black - faster cars and/or more experience). The call for participants is for all run groups. Club Racers participants can be found in White through Red and clearly the number of days is not a requirement for progression through to White, many exceptional drivers have moved through the ranks with minimum time in each group. It is generally not the case. In the data I provided I dropped the high and the low numbers to arrive at the range.

By run group and number of track days (average) range

Green - 16 days - range 1 to 50 (largest concentration 8 - 25)

Blue - 32 days - range 12 to 81 (largest concentration 29 - 36)

White - 61 days - range 24 to 132 (largest concentration 36 - 69, some cup cars)

Black - 110 days - range 42 to 275 (largest concentration 77 - 160, several cup cars)

Red - 215 days - range 75 to 1006 (many cup cars)

Yes, they are waiving the Porsche only rule.

I'm sure there are MANY interested that just lack the required experience.

woodym3
06-26-2008, 08:36 AM
Thanks Chuck. I think the Potomac Region PCA has suddenly experienced a drop in attendance at their events and they've decided it's necessary to open them up to other marques. They did the same thing for their Mid-Ohio event earlier in the year. The Potomac Region puts on a huge number of DE events every year, including jaunts to Watkins Glen, VIR and Mid-Ohio.

OwnedbyDuncan
06-26-2008, 09:51 AM
PCA Potomac DE's had been Porsche only since at least the early 80's.
Bad dates or a reflection of the econmy in the Mid Atlantic?

Will be interesting to see if NCCs schools suffer later in the year and next year.
Might also make it easier to get better dates from BSR?

Dave Apker

woodym3
06-26-2008, 10:19 AM
Will be interesting to see if NCCs schools suffer later in the year and next year.
Might also make it easier to get better dates from BSR?

Dave Apker

No problem with our dates this year IMHO. I suspect competition from Thunderbolt and Lightning (NJ Motorsports Park) will improve our ability to get choice dates in the future.

WildMride
06-27-2008, 03:31 AM
do these schools have any restrictions when it comes to convertables? i have a 1995 miata with a rollbar and hardtop.

woodym3
06-27-2008, 08:05 AM
do these schools have any restrictions when it comes to convertables? i have a 1995 miata with a rollbar and hardtop.

It depends on the organization. The National Capital Chapter BMWCCA does, although I'm not sure why if it is a Spec Miata that has passed SCCA or NASA tech inspection and is still street legal.

It is best to check with the paricular organization(s) you are considering running with.

Jenson Button
06-27-2008, 08:35 AM
do these schools have any restrictions when it comes to convertables? i have a 1995 miata with a rollbar and hardtop.

Do check what is required with the Potomac boys, but I see Boxsters and 914s and Targas at their events so clearly they are less restrictive in this area than the NCC. Check the PCA Potomac website for the email of their tech chairman. This is the one true source for accurate info on the rollbar requirements. I think it needs to have some approval by a sanctioning body, I think.

Bob

Mbuchals
06-27-2008, 11:51 AM
alright ill look into the PCA convertible restrictions, but you said the BMWCCA does allow convertibles as long as they have a rollbar that is SCCA approved. my car is not a spec miata though, just has a roll bar and not a cage.

Jenson Button
06-27-2008, 12:24 PM
Bad dates or a reflection of the econmy in the Mid Atlantic?



I believe the issue is related to their run group system. Because people are defined by their color, and run groups are not fluid like BMW CCA's, they can run into trouble by not getting the proper number of instructors or the proper number or each level of student. Being a "green" student makes entry into a school harder because there are more novices to compete against. Being a white advanced student solo'd helps your chances. It is all a bit different. On top of that, they run a lot of schools per year.

Car54
07-08-2008, 10:07 AM
White911:

Are you going to open up your August event (to other marques) at Summit Point?

datak9
07-09-2008, 05:05 AM
White911:

Are you going to open up your August event (to other marques) at Summit Point?

I believe they now accept other marques. You should email the guys asap if you're interested.

fpol
07-09-2008, 06:50 AM
Thought that was just to fill the roster when they couldn't fill up on their own? I'm wary of running with a group that once they start filling up again start shutting the door to anyone without the proper VIN.

mcoupemindy
07-09-2008, 06:52 AM
White911:

Are you going to open up your August event (to other marques) at Summit Point?

Lemme know what you find out. I'll be interested in coming with you.

white911
07-10-2008, 09:25 AM
I received a PM regarding the August event and will post the gist of what my response was plus a bit more -- I am waiting until 30 days prior to the event to make a determination. I will be having a meeting to discuss my thoughts concerning this with the executive board. We are a club and members have certain expectations. If we were a commercial enterprise, I could see the point of always having it open to other marques. I prefer the mix of cars I see at FATT, Audi Club, TrackDaze, and others. Several of us belong to different car clubs and participate in events with those clubs. I can sort of understand a 'members only' perspective; but, if a person is a member why should they have to drive their specific concours 356 when they have a perfectly good spec E36 or SRF? At present I am working on another inniative that will if implemented open up upper run groups; but would do nothing for the beginner groups as long as we have a Waitlist of Club member Porsche drivers in those two groups.

dbonner
07-11-2008, 07:34 AM
Thought that was just to fill the roster when they couldn't fill up on their own? I'm wary of running with a group that once they start filling up again start shutting the door to anyone without the proper VIN.

I hear what you're saying. I'm running with PCA Potomac this weekend in the White Group. Even at the PCA Tech inspection at InterSport/Tysons last Sunday, I felt like a less-than-welcome interloper, when the tech volunteer at first declined to inspect my lowly Bimmer, though later apologized (But Alan and Tony of PCA came to the rescue and were great). Because of PCA's Porsche-only tradition --very different from BMW CCA's open door philosophy to other marques-- old attitudes about "our marque only" die hard. So riding another marque may make you feel a little like an ugly American in Paris. But PCA Potomac has excellent track dates, and they offer you a weekend on Summit Main at the astonishingly low (and unbeatable) price of $225. So that seems well worth any grief.
BonBahn

1996 328ti
07-11-2008, 10:51 AM
I hear what you're saying. I'm running with PCA Potomac this weekend in the White Group.Remember when we went to VIR when Zone 2 couldn't fill their schools in the early days? They welcomed BMW. Rather, they welcomed our money. Then once their schools filled with P-cars, the CI politely said we wouldn't be able to register next time. I'm still pretty bitter about that.

Sorry, I really don't mean to hijack the thread.