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View Full Version : PCA April Summit Point Raceway



Car54
01-30-2008, 10:09 PM
http://www.mytrackschedule.com/ViewTrack.asp?TrackName=Summit%20Point%20Raceway

Anyone interested in doing this one? April 12-13th, Main circuit. Registration begins 60 days out....so in less than two weeks.

gwilson
01-31-2008, 07:50 AM
Potomac PCA is Porsches only.

Car54
01-31-2008, 08:41 AM
Bummer....thanks for the heads-up...

Their autox's allow all cars though, right?

Scany
01-31-2008, 09:08 AM
and it's on my birthday! :)

OwnedbyDuncan
01-31-2008, 12:27 PM
PCA Potomac also runs a lot more run groups then NCC does at their schools. And for some strange reason thye dont use the skidpad. maybe this has changed but when you have rear engined cars skidpad training is a good thing. Back several years ago they had 5 or 6 run groups.

Dave Apker and the collies

e30m3sm
01-31-2008, 05:05 PM
PCA Potomac also runs a lot more run groups then NCC does at their schools. And for some strange reason thye dont use the skidpad. maybe this has changed but when you have rear engined cars skidpad training is a good thing. Back several years ago they had 5 or 6 run groups.

Dave Apker and the collies

P-car drivers don't want to get their cars dirty.

Besides you need qualified skidpad instructors to run the show.:biggrin:

Gerry

Jenson Button
02-01-2008, 07:29 AM
At their last event that was their version of a Highway safety school, Miriam ran the event. They did use the skidpad, and I worked for them. I can tell you that they seem very green. When I explained that R compound tires have way more grip on the skidpad, I got alot of argument from the other workers. Since I was the new guy and they informed me that they raced, I must have been wrong.

Real M3
02-01-2008, 07:44 AM
P-car drivers don't want to get their cars dirty.

Besides you need qualified skidpad instructors to run the show.:biggrin:

Gerry

Oh no, this is sounding like a political debate show now!

He he, play nice Gerry!

Real M3
02-01-2008, 07:47 AM
Since I was the new guy and they informed me that they raced, I must have been wrong.


Hopkins wrong??? There's a novel idea! :eek:

e30m3sm
02-01-2008, 02:33 PM
Sorry Chuck but I couldn't resist.:biggrin:

As a training instructor for BSR at their winter clinics we get our share of Porsche instructors going through the program.

They come in with this supercillious attitude towards FATT instructors but after a day behind the wheels of the "spec Caprice Police Interceptor" cars they get a glimmer of all the things they don't know or have yet to master.:eek:

I esp. like the looks on their faces when they are asked to steer around the track from the right seat or when they are asked to do a "no brakes" exercise.

Gerry

FT
02-02-2008, 01:18 PM
I am sorry, but I cannot disagree more about the quality of Potomac's instructors. The good ones don't even bother with instructing in BSR. Majority of them are club racers, and over 80% of them have over 200 DE and racing days experience.

Since I have been attending their events, I learned quite a bit more, feel safer and get more track time at a cheaper price. I imagine value of DEs changes from one person to another; for me Potomac offers the best in the area, instructions and value wise.

As far as cockiness goes for PCA instructors, that's quite off the mark as well. Streotyping has always been fruitless IMO.

e30m3sm
02-02-2008, 04:46 PM
I am sorry, but I cannot disagree more about the quality of Potomac's instructors. The good ones don't even bother with instructing in BSR. Majority of them are club racers, and over 80% of them have over 200 DE and racing days experience.

Since I have been attending their events, I learned quite a bit more, feel safer and get more track time at a cheaper price. I imagine value of DEs changes from one person to another; for me Potomac offers the best in the area, instructions and value wise.

As far as cockiness goes for PCA instructors, that's quite off the mark as well. Streotyping has always been fruitless IMO.

My apologies to FT and any others who may hav been put off by my post on this thread.
Henceforth I will cease and desist from disparaging PCA instructors. It was only meant in good fun but after rereading my own post it now seems sophmoric in nature.

I am reminded of an old saying that goes something like "there is wisdom in many (read: multiple) teachers".:)

OwnedbyDuncan
02-02-2008, 06:16 PM
fT,

How many run groups do they have when they run the big track at Summit Point? And how many cars per run group? Last I heard it was
6 run groups and I think almost 30 cars per run group. More track time really? Low cost yeah more cars equal a lower cost but less track time and more time spent following another car instead of having open track.

NCC last I heard 3 run groups with about 20 cars per run group. Plus skidpad time which beats track time anyday. difficlut to teach car control
on track with all the modern electronic nannies and today's tires. Unless it rains.

And I am sorry racing is one thing and teaching high performance driving another.I always learned more about car control etc from an instructorswith no racing experience like Bill, Dave, Sue, Dave, Woody, Roy then the NCC instructors with racing experience except for Bill who had experience in both.

Dave Apker and the collies

1996 328ti
02-02-2008, 06:35 PM
I was waiting for this.

Not that this has anything to do with the Original Post,
NCC usually run 4 groups. Well 5 if you count instructors.
So that is 1 less than PCA if they run 6 groups.

Granted NCC groups are usually 20 or so.
There is plenty of room for 30 cars if people are watching their mirrors.

There are a lot more P-car owners looking for track time than NCC members.
PCA accommodates their members.

I've driven with First Settlers and I don't think they sacrifice anything.

Not all NCC instructors are golden.
Not all BSR instructors are golden.
Not all Porsche instructors are golden.

I get different instruction from racer and non-racer types.
Some good, some bad from both.

FT
02-02-2008, 07:36 PM
My apologies to FT and any others who may hav been put off by my post on this thread.
Henceforth I will cease and desist from disparaging PCA instructors. It was only meant in good fun but after rereading my own post it now seems sophmoric in nature.

I am reminded of an old saying that goes something like "there is wisdom in many (read: multiple) teachers".:)
I should have seen the sarcasm in between the lines and I apologize as well for coming too strong on behalf of PCAers, I am sorry.


fT,

How many run groups do they have when they run the big track at Summit Point? And how many cars per run group? Last I heard it was
6 run groups and I think almost 30 cars per run group. More track time really? Low cost yeah more cars equal a lower cost but less track time and more time spent following another car instead of having open track.

Each chapter has different run groups but all try to comply with national standards as I understand. Potomac being the largest chapter puts out events for multiple chapters 12 to 14 events a year, at Summit, VIR, Watkins Glen and Mid-Ohio and sometime Pocono I believe. They have Green, Blue, White, Black and Red run groups with increasing experience. Depending on the track, they limit the # of cars; at Summit I have not seen more than 25-30 cars per run group. At VIR they bump that # to about 50. The demand for thier events are very high, hence they limit it to PCA members and Porsches only. I believe most other chapters do allow non-Pcars, including Zone 2.

I have been to 3 or 4 events with them just at Summit and in neither of them there was traffic. I got between 25-30 mins each session and it was never less than 4 sessions a day. So, you are guaranteed 2 hours of track time each day. For $225 for two days, that's unbeatable if you ask me. Additionally, about 40% of their events a year are 3-day events; such as at VIR, Mid-Ohio and Watkins.


And I am sorry racing is one thing and teaching high performance driving another.I always learned more about car control etc from an instructorswith no racing experience like Bill, Dave, Sue, Dave, Woody, Roy then the NCC instructors with racing experience except for Bill who had experience in both.
You may have misunderstood me; I did not mean that because they do club racing, they teach racing, they certainly don't. Especially with Potomac, the instructors are guided quite closely and strictly; not to mention that PCA has multi-level instructor programs, including a national-level.

Based just on my personal experience, I have never felt I am being pushed to levels that would scare me. On the contrary, the first qualifier to be promoted from lower run groups to higher is consistency independent of your speed, and how you are able to deal with traffic in front and rear. Any sort of agressiveness are checked relatively severly from what I have seen.

As I mentioned before, I feel very safe in PCA events, more so than others I have attended, and keep having fun at my own pace. But, for sure, I am disappointed that the skid pad is not a regular exercise beyond the safety school.

Car54
02-03-2008, 12:27 AM
So .......what about the PCA autox's? ;)

woodym3
02-03-2008, 10:36 AM
So .......what about the PCA autox's? ;)

I did the last PCA-Potomac AX of 2007 (in a p-car) and found out they do allow other makes at their events. That might change if they get overwhelmed with other makes.

FT
02-03-2008, 11:05 AM
I did the last PCA-Potomac AX of 2007 (in a p-car) and found out they do allow other makes at their events. That might change if they get overwhelmed with other makes.
That is correct, they allow any make similar NCC autoxes and track their points as well within a single class. I doubt that PCA autoxes will get more than 40 or so cars in any event, which they are trying to limit to by keeping their prices higher than normal IMO; $40/driver.