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M32DR
01-01-2007, 08:44 PM
After crawling under my M3 I saw the BMW sticker on the side of my 1999 50K mile 5 speed manual thanny that says "LIFE TIME FILL" so I stopped my plan to drain the fluid and refill with Redline fluid. Should I do it anyways? despite the "Life Time" promised by BMW

1996 328ti
01-01-2007, 09:02 PM
There was some discussion about this last year.
Look at http://forum.nccbmwcca.org/showthread.php?t=1142, particularly post 5.
Although that applied to automatic transmissions.
And a little hint, look at the bottom of the page for Similar Threads.

Scotty
01-02-2007, 06:12 PM
You do know that "gear oil" and "transmission fluid" are two different things, right?

Automatic transmission fluid is a lubricating hydraulic fluid. Gear oil is a heavy lubricant. Don't put ATF in a manual gearbox. :wink:

1996 328ti
01-02-2007, 06:57 PM
Gear oil is a heavy lubricant. Don't put ATF in a manual gearbox. :wink:Not true. E36s call for either MTL or ATF.

tgmeyer
01-04-2007, 10:52 AM
Should I do it anyways? despite the "Life Time" promised by BMW
As my dad always said to me, "Engineers a lot smarter than you designed this." Dad was a materials engineer and I have a minor in mechanical. He taught me to follow the manual and I remember helping rebuild my first [GrayMarine 327] engine [of many] @<hidden> 4 years of age. 40 years later I recall it like it was yesterday.
My point, you ask? I know I am smart but the engineers who designed and built our autos are smarter than I. Follow thier lead and do not change the fluid.
Tom

Zchild
01-04-2007, 11:29 AM
:icon_blah I hate to be a party crasher, however I replaced a transmission at 155K just after the clutch at 150K. I wonder if I would of actually had to replace the transmission if I had replaced the fluid at 100K. How long is a lifetime in the eyes of BMW. I've read that 100K constitutes a lifetime as most fanatics either replace their bimmers or drive a whole lot less than I. I'm going to replace my transmission fluid at 100K this time around. Just my two and a half cents worth. Happy Motoring...
:icon_poke

mlytle
01-04-2007, 11:37 AM
engineers didn't put that label on the tranny. the marketing dept did. it appeared on bmw trannys at the same time bmw started providing "free service" on new cars. "life time fill" = one less maint cost that bmw had to pay for during the warrantee period.

unless you define "lifetime" as the life time of the original warrantee like bmw does, there is no such thing as a lifetime fill for oils. change it!!!!!!!!!

use 1.8 qts of redline MTL or D4ATF. i have used both in my m3 and race car, both work well in that tranny.

marshall
97 M3
93 325is
02 325it

Zchild
01-04-2007, 12:22 PM
engineers didn't put that label on the tranny. the marketing dept did. it appeared on bmw trannys at the same time bmw started providing "free service" on new cars. "life time fill" = one less maint cost that bmw had to pay for during the warrantee period.

unless you define "lifetime" as the life time of the original warrantee like bmw does, there is no such thing as a lifetime fill for oils. change it!!!!!!!!!

use 1.8 qts of redline MTL or D4ATF. i have used both in my m3 and race car, both work well in that tranny.

marshall
97 M3
93 325is
02 325it

:icon_blah What interval would you recommend? :icon_poke

1996 328ti
01-04-2007, 01:42 PM
:icon_blah What interval would you recommend? :icon_poke
I change my fluids in the spring before my first driving school.
That is probably overkill but it gives me a chance to see the condition of the fluid. Oil is cheap. Transmissions are not.

hoyabmw
01-04-2007, 02:13 PM
:icon_blah What interval would you recommend? :icon_poke

I say follow the old recommendations: Every second Inspection service, replace the tranny and diff fluids. That used to equate to about 30K miles, but I don't know what the latest generations' inspection service intervals are since I'm still running and E30 and E36.

Of course, my autox toy gets them changed every 2 years, because I want the extra insurance and I only drive it less than 5K per year.

Kevin

chicane
01-04-2007, 03:59 PM
As my dad always said to me, "Engineers a lot smarter than you designed this." Dad was a materials engineer and I have a minor in mechanical. He taught me to follow the manual and I remember helping rebuild my first [GrayMarine 327] engine [of many] @<hidden> 4 years of age. 40 years later I recall it like it was yesterday.
My point, you ask? I know I am smart but the engineers who designed and built our autos are smarter than I. Follow thier lead and do not change the fluid.
Tom

If the engineers truly meant for this to be a "Lifetime Fluid" why did they design the tranny with a drain plug?

Not to mention BMW contradicts itself by having a big sticker on the transmission that says "Lifetime Fluid" but on the Inspection II checklist they state to change transmission fluid (e46).

I'm sorry there is no such thing as "Lifetime Fluids". It is the manufacturers way of building some obsolescence into a very well built car.

chicane
01-04-2007, 04:04 PM
:icon_blah What interval would you recommend? :icon_poke


Try these intervals:

http://members.roadfly.org/kmurph/Service_Checklist_2004_US.pdf-link.pdf

M32DR
01-04-2007, 07:50 PM
Thanks guys for your comments...and feedback.
It is a go for a diy this weekend, round two of flush and fill of a M3 5 speed-IF I can break loose those confounded drain plug and fill 17mm nuts. The torque on them is super human tight. I can't believe how tight they are...wow. and will I find a gasket washer...like on the differential drain & fill plugs?

mlytle
01-04-2007, 10:07 PM
Thanks guys for your comments...and feedback.
It is a go for a diy this weekend, round two of flush and fill of a M3 5 speed-IF I can break loose those confounded drain plug and fill 17mm nuts. The torque on them is super human tight. I can't believe how tight they are...wow. and will I find a gasket washer...like on the differential drain & fill plugs?


i change the tranny and diff fluid twice a sseason on the race car. i change both at 30k intervals in the street bmw's.

those plugs can get tight when not exercised...use a long handled wrench and open the fill plug first!!!! tighten to spec torque when you put them back in.

they are taped thread style plugs. no gaskets or washers used.

have fun!
marshall

M32DR
01-06-2007, 09:03 AM
THANKS Marshall. and everyone for your comments and information. I successfully completed the flush and fill. And recommend it be done instead of relying on a "lifetime fill". It went well. Note that there was a lock tight compound on the drain/fill bolts that required a breaker bar (pipe over ratchet handle) for me to loosen. Overall the job went smoothly. Do it yourself!

mlytle
01-06-2007, 09:04 PM
your welcome..

note my typo...i meant to write TAPERED threads, not TAPED...

odortiz
01-07-2007, 12:06 PM
i replace all driveline fluids every year. it's easy DIY, cheap insurance, and as said before, cheaper than a new trans.

before marketing departments started pushing the "cost of ownership" garbage, oil changes were recommended at 3k, 15k driveline fluids on autos, 30k on manuals.

oil technology has come a long way also, but a 15k oil change on conventional oil?!?!? most people never check their oil to see if they even have any.

summary: if you want to keep your car running well for a long time, maintain it well. a smart engineer built the thing, and i'm sure he would tell you a differential goes under a lot of stress and the oil/additive package will not last for ever.

jhm5
01-09-2007, 07:59 AM
Remove the fill plug FIRST, then the drain plug. On the odd chance you can't get the fill plug out, you would be in a fine fix if you drained the stuff first.

Nick325xiT 5spd
01-09-2007, 11:28 AM
And use BMW MTF-LT2. It is far, far better than the Redline stuff.

OwnedbyDuncan
01-09-2007, 12:56 PM
And use BMW MTF-LT2. It is far, far better than the Redline stuff.

Not sure about that when I sold my 90 E30325i with approx 240000 miles on it had Redline MTL in it and was on a steady diet of stuff from about 15000miles. Never a problem. And I know a number of other BMWs with similar stories. So I take Redline over anything BMW has. Great shifting in all types of temps.

I just have to find the right Redline trannie fluid for the manual trannie in my Element. Honda is worse than BMW with its warnings to use only Honda fluids to include Honda brake fluid. Sorry I use ATE Gold when I flush the system next fall.

BTW BMW has two vehicles in the top ten overall in the Dakar Rally/Raid

Dave Apker and the collies

jkuper
01-10-2007, 01:16 AM
And use BMW MTF-LT2. It is far, far better than the Redline stuff.

I think I am going to try that, I am not real happy with Redline in the gearbox

1996 328ti
01-10-2007, 04:48 AM
I recently used BG SyncroMesh II.
It felt 100 times better than Red Line.

chicane
01-10-2007, 07:51 AM
And use BMW MTF-LT2. It is far, far better than the Redline stuff.

Man, you seem to make many over-arching opinions without much evidence to back it up. I have heard from numerous BMW owners, including the author of Roundel's Tech Section, that RedLine works great in their tranny (and diff).

I personally use Royal Purple and have been very happy with the results.
Complaints about the BMW tranny oil is it is very heavy and makes the tranny very hard to shift in the winter time and that it is very expensive, many times more than a similar amount of RP or RL.

tgmeyer
01-11-2007, 08:31 PM
If the engineers truly meant for this to be a "Lifetime Fluid" why did they design the tranny with a drain plug?

Because they did not redesign the drain pan??? :confused: Perhaps?
Food for thought. :)
Tom

chicane
01-12-2007, 08:01 AM
Because they did not redesign the drain pan??? :confused: Perhaps?
Food for thought. :)
Tom


They redesigned it for the e90. There is no oil dipstick or drain plug on the diff. And if they didn't want the drain plug to be used (because they didn't want a redesign as you say) all they would have to do is tack weld the drain plug in place. In fact they could have tack welded the fill plug in place if it is a lifetime fluid, so that doesn't hold water.