View Full Version : how summit main in the rain compatred to jeff.

10-21-2005, 07:13 PM
are there places i should not be in the wet. is it such a big change in grip online/offline as it is in the jefferson circuit?
been to main lots of times but it was always dry. what's the wet line through 3, 4, and 10.

on a side note, vote for the july car. it's mine.

1996 328ti
10-21-2005, 07:25 PM
Turn 1 is very slick.

Nick325xiT 5spd
10-21-2005, 07:50 PM
3 is just 6' or so off the apex, 4 is normal line, 6 is stay off the shiny parts, then use the curb, 10 is a little off the apex, IIRC.

1996 328ti
10-21-2005, 07:54 PM
I guess all that depends on which direction you run in.

10-22-2005, 05:34 AM
I've never been to the Main Circuit when it's been run CCW. How often do clubes choose to run it CCW? That sounds interesting and fun!

1996 328ti
10-22-2005, 06:57 AM
I've never been to the Main Circuit when it's been run CCW. How often do clubes choose to run it CCW? That sounds interesting and fun!I misread the original post. I saw Jeff and figured he was running on the Jeff. BTW- Unofficially the track has been run backwards.

10-22-2005, 07:14 AM
Running the main track backwards creates big problems for turn 1 and running a little wide or a lot wide at track out. The bridge to the infield creates all kinds of problems.

A very smart instructor once told me look for dull sections of the track when wet and avoid the shiny sections. Good advice on the street too.
Works when the streets are wet, snow covered etc. the shinier they appear the slicker they are.

You learn more on a wet track. Have fun enjoy.

I wet drivers school beats a wet herding lesson anyday.

Dave Apker

Jenson Button
10-22-2005, 03:27 PM
Main CCW makes turn 10 a life or death affair. Go wide and eat the bridge. BSR runs CCW for their crazy anti-terrorist stuff but I don't think anyone else is allowed. Those kooks go CCW in the dark. How cool is that?!?!?

10-22-2005, 05:57 PM
had a great time in the wet on the main. not as bad as my first time. the first time in the rain was like learning to drive all over again. this time i knew what to expect. the main is not as scary as i thought it would be in the wet.
thanks to all repliers.

10-23-2005, 10:45 AM
Yeah with the anti terrorist training you have SEALS or retired SEALS and other SF members. They are unique individuals to begin with and guys you dont want to be in bar fight with or against from personal experience.

10-23-2005, 05:00 PM
I misread the original post. I saw Jeff and figured he was running on the Jeff. BTW- Unofficially the track has been run backwards.

Back in the late 80s the NCC schools would use the two roads that connect the main straight with the entrance to turn 3 to create two separate tracks. The novice group would use the "turn 1 track" to have braking and lane change exercises while the advanced group would use the rest of the track.
Sometimes we would run this shorter track counter-clock wise. Bob Gammache, the chief instructor at the time, said he was not comfortably with us using the whole track ccw because of the very high approach to the fast turn 10. CCW was a hoot. The Carousel was entered at a pretty good rate of speed and the decreasing radius made for interesting techniques in scrubbing speed.

For many years now our contract with Summit Point prohibits running CCW.

By the way, we used to do some crazy things at the driver schools in the 80s including time-trials and tag-team relay races. I don't think anyone was aware that our insurance probably didn't cover these activities.

10-24-2005, 05:22 AM
Back then Woody BMWs were slower and had less horsepower. M5 and M6 with 286hp was probably the BMW's with the highest stock hp. I am guessing that either Bill Shook and Dave/Sue Bryan with their turbo 320's probably were the fastest modified 4 cyclinder and maybe Klus or Tom with 5 cyclinders. Still you didn't have students with stock BMW's with 330 to 400+ hp. And all the safety improvements like DSC and ABS create more problems than they solve at DS. And tires were slower.

Shame I missed the 80's. Doesn't PCA Potomac still have time trials?

10-25-2005, 08:27 AM
Basic philosophy in the rain - stay off the dry line. The dry line has oil, lots of rubber (great in the dry, slick in the wet).

Second tip - look for surfaces with texture, ie avoid shiny places.

Third tip - you loose more in lateral grip than in longitudinal grip. The car looses more in cornering ability than braking and accelerating.

10-25-2005, 08:09 PM
summit main was a good time in the wet. much more fun than jefferson wet.
seems like main has more grip. also the longer corners make "squaring off" turns easier.
i was expecting for it to be more stressfull on me because it's a faster track. it was actually more relaxing than the jefferson in the wet.
thanks to all who chimed in.

10-26-2005, 08:01 AM
Also much slower in the rain.

I went from a best time of 1:27.0 in the hot dry summer to a 1:50.4 in the wet in the Spec Racer. And lots of people went even slower, who are normally faster than me.

10-26-2005, 09:08 AM
As a student I always looked forward to and preferred a wet track for a school. As coordinator I hated wet schools. First it is miserable running a school for a weekend in the rain and the rain always meant a chance of incidents to mess up the schedule.And then there were always students or instructors who insisted on having their windows up which then required various hand signals to try to get them to roll/put down the window. Ultimately they got black flagged. But I could always count On Steve Lowry to keep us on time. And then if there were showers I could count on Dave Bryan, then the chief instructor getting on my case so the instructors could get out on the wet track.

Dave Apker