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View Full Version : Ready to take the leap...



unclehumble
10-11-2005, 03:56 PM
I have kept my car (99 E36 M3) stock for the last three drivers schools, and I get a pretty much consistent tone/ sound response from the all-seasons that I have on my car. The car comes with 17's 225 in front 245 in back.

Well, based on advice from my instructor, I am thinking I need to step up to dedicated tires for driving schools. I'm think about increasing wheel size (18's), going from teh Kumho ASXs to possibly Michelin pilot's or Proxes RA-1s? Also probably a new set of wheels to go with it. Any thoughts/ advice on what is reasonable? Upsizing from 225/245 to 235/255? Does that make any sense?

Thanks,
unclehumble

Nick325xiT 5spd
10-11-2005, 04:13 PM
Do your suspension before you put R-tires on. Lots of stick makes the stock suspension twitchy at the limit--the massive weight transfer allowed by R-tires can make oversteer rather frightening.

SharkD
10-11-2005, 05:02 PM
Have you been in B-group, yet? The reason I ask is the no-brake and off-line exercises -- R-Comps make them much more interesting, but also a lot more of a handful if you've never done it before.

Also, how have your skidpad sessions gone? Have you effectively been able to induce and correct for both understeer and oversteer, yet? If not, making adjustments to your suspension and/or tires will make mastering them that much more difficult.

A lot of instructors will tell you that they've never used anything other than streets on the track. (Although, personally, I think the Pilot Sports are waaaay too expensive -- go for something like the Yoko AVS ES100; cheap and 90% of the MPS performance.)

Nick325xiT 5spd
10-11-2005, 05:56 PM
Have you been in B-group, yet? The reason I ask is the no-brake and off-line exercises -- R-Comps make them much more interesting, but also a lot more of a handful if you've never done it before.

Also, how have your skidpad sessions gone? Have you effectively been able to induce and correct for both understeer and oversteer, yet? If not, making adjustments to your suspension and/or tires will make mastering them that much more difficult.

A lot of instructors will tell you that they've never used anything other than streets on the track. (Although, personally, I think the Pilot Sports are waaaay too expensive -- go for something like the Yoko AVS ES100; cheap and 90% of the MPS performance.)
I disagree strongly. Modern Bimmers are MUCH more of a handful with stock suspensions than they are when modified. The newer suspensions grip and grip and grip, until they let go... And when they go, it can be pretty fucking scary.

Emphasis on modern. The E30s that I've driven didn't have this tendency.

1996 328ti
10-11-2005, 06:59 PM
Do your suspension before you put R-tires on. Lots of stick makes the stock suspension twitchy at the limit--the massive weight transfer allowed by R-tires can make oversteer rather frightening.My car rolls like mad with RA1s. I think Nick is right on this one. If you are driving your car to the limits on street tires and stock suspension, I might opt for working on suspension first but I would use a dedicated set of street tires though.

Nick325xiT 5spd
10-11-2005, 08:13 PM
Plus, a decent suspension will save you a hell of a lot of money in tires. My tires last about three times as long with adequate camber.

SharkD
10-12-2005, 09:23 AM
I disagree strongly. Modern Bimmers are MUCH more of a handful with stock suspensions than they are when modified. The newer suspensions grip and grip and grip, until they let go... And when they go, it can be pretty fucking scary.

Emphasis on modern. The E30s that I've driven didn't have this tendency.

Since both my bimmers are old enough to vote in the next election (and my Mustang turned 40 in April), I'll defer to Nick's familiarity with the quirks of the E36/E46 families.

Nick325xiT 5spd
10-12-2005, 10:04 AM
Since both my bimmers are old enough to vote in the next election, I'll defer to Nick's familiarity with the quirks of the E36/E46 families.
IMHO, the worst part of it is the way the stock suspension builds overconfidence. You're a lot more careful in a car that moves around a little.

Pinecone
10-21-2005, 07:49 AM
I pretty much agree with Nick (scary isn't it :) ).

I would look into dedicated street tires for track. I used a set of Sumitomo HTR Z IIs for awhile. Not a bad tire, but pretty cheap and still usable as a rain tire. Pretty good life also. It would make a nice step up from all seasons.

Then some minor suspension upgrades, moving along as you gain experience. I would say shocks and some more negative camber int eh front to start. BimmerWorld and Turner sell kits that can increase the front camber, and you can swap the hats on 96 and later M3s for more negative camber. Later, springs and sways.

Nick325xiT 5spd
10-21-2005, 08:35 AM
I pretty much agree with Nick (scary isn't it :) ).

I would look into dedicated street tires for track. I used a set of Sumitomo HTR Z IIs for awhile. Not a bad tire, but pretty cheap and still usable as a rain tire. Pretty good life also. It would make a nice step up from all seasons.

Then some minor suspension upgrades, moving along as you gain experience. I would say shocks and some more negative camber int eh front to start. BimmerWorld and Turner sell kits that can increase the front camber, and you can swap the hats on 96 and later M3s for more negative camber. Later, springs and sways.
You're just sucking up since I'm working on your car this weekend. :neener:

Pinecone
10-26-2005, 08:16 AM
Actually I do agree with you at times. :)

And thanks for the help. I did track down the brake problem, seems the left front bleeder screw did not get fully tightened.

unclehumble
11-23-2005, 03:28 PM
Hey, well thanks to all for the replies, I have pretty much come to the same conclusion anyway, based on all my readings. Tires first, next is springs...

I gotta tell you I love getting this thing out on the track and there really aren't too many better things then getting your car out on the track.

Thanks for all the time and comments.

Pinecone
11-25-2005, 04:14 PM
Funny, reading the thread I thought teh concensus was shocks, springs, sways, THEN tires? :)

Having just done the suspension on my E46 m3. And running it on street tires at Summit, the suspension makes mroe of a difference than the tires do. And the car is much better behaved on a modded suspension on street tires than on R-comps (Michelin Pilot Sport Cups) on a pretty much stock suspension.

Suspension FIRST.

unclehumble
11-27-2005, 08:58 PM
yep, that's what I meant...what you said.

Springs first, then tires.