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ob325
08-06-2005, 10:34 AM
Interesting article in the Post today.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/05/AR2005080501595.html

The quick-and-dirty is that the sales of premium gasoline are decreasing with increasing gas prices, even in cars like ours that recommend premium gasoline.

Do others still use the expensive stuff? And do you think one would notice any difference in driving by using the regular grade for around-town driving, but switching back to premium before driving school events?

white_2kgt
08-07-2005, 01:18 AM
Do others still use the expensive stuff? And do you think one would notice any difference in driving by using the regular grade for around-town driving, but switching back to premium before driving school events?

If a car manufacturer say you should use 93, then you should use 93. If they say use 87, use 87. I had a roommate in college w/ a 90ish accord and always ran 93 Exxon which was on average .20 more expensive than the sheets 87 across the street, never understood it.

I always ran 87 in my mustang GT engine, now I have to run 93 in the cobra or it will knock. There is NO benifit to using a higher grade fuel in an engine that doesn't require it.

1996 328ti
08-07-2005, 06:01 AM
I use premium in my ti because of the chip. Before that I was using 89 just as recommended. My gas mileage went down when I used 93. I felt no difference in performance. Our Cooper S requires 93 but due to a hesitation, yoyo effect in the summer our dealer has recommended going down one grade. We have felt no difference except that the hesitation has gotten less. Something to due with the computer not mixing the fuel correctly when it is hot.

Rafgar
08-07-2005, 10:21 AM
Excellent timing on raising this issue.

I'm currently working with BP Amoco to have them participate in some local chapter events. My thoughts were to have them send a "fuel technologist" to a tech session or a club meeting. They would make a presentation on fuel and then answer our questions.

Anybody have any ideas or suggestions? Now's the correct time to send them in while I'm in the development stage.

Thanks,

OwnedbyDuncan
08-07-2005, 02:51 PM
I always heard premium fuel left less deposits than regular or midgrade?

What is interesting in my neck of the woods is a BP, Mobil or Exxon station in Centerville has prices that on average are 15 to 30 cents higher than same stations just across the line in PW County on Rt28. Price drop occurs at the BP station just on the other side of the Fairfax County/Prince William County line about a 5 miles from the stations in Centerville. Price differnetila is consitent amongest all grades of gasoline.

Not sure one of their fuel techs can answer that question. Probaly need a marketing guy or one of their lawyers.

Nick325xiT 5spd
08-07-2005, 02:57 PM
I always heard premium fuel left less deposits than regular or midgrade?

What is interesting in my neck of the woods is a BP, Mobil or Exxon station in Centerville has prices that on average are 15 to 30 cents higher than same stations just across the line in PW County on Rt28. Price drop occurs at the BP station just on the other side of the Fairfax County/Prince William County line about a 5 miles from the stations in Centerville. Price differnetila is consitent amongest all grades of gasoline.

Not sure one of their fuel techs can answer that question. Probaly need a marketing guy or one of their lawyers.
First off, have you considered real estate costs? 5 miles is a HUGE distance.

mlytle
08-07-2005, 03:32 PM
gas taxes vary by county, hence the price difference.

many years ago premium gas had detergents in it that other grades didn't. nowadays most all gas has detergents. no advantage to going with premium to reduce deposits.

daddeu
08-07-2005, 05:40 PM
Would appreciate a "fuel technologist" at a tech session or a club meeting.
One question could be: Does five gallons of 89 octane mixed with five gallons of 93 octane (both dispensed from the same gas station) equal 10 gallons of 91 octane?

Nick325xiT 5spd
08-07-2005, 06:25 PM
Would appreciate a "fuel technologist" at a tech session or a club meeting.
One question could be: Does five gallons of 89 octane mixed with five gallons of 93 octane (both dispensed from the same gas station) equal 10 gallons of 91 octane?
Yes.

white_2kgt
08-07-2005, 09:22 PM
Yes.

As long as it is unleaded ;)
There's always a caveat isn't there.


Would appreciate a "fuel technologist" at a tech session or a club meeting.
One question could be: Does five gallons of 89 octane mixed with five gallons of 93 octane (both dispensed from the same gas station) equal 10 gallons of 91 octane?

It doesn't matter where it came from. Just so they are both unleaded and are using the same rating system (R+M)/2 BY LAW it must meat a minimum octane, so you could get 5 gal of 89 unleaded from florida and 5 gal of 93 from oklahoma and mixing them will give you 10 gal of 91.

--chad

OwnedbyDuncan
08-08-2005, 06:12 AM
Gas taxes vary by jurisdiction but not enough to account for a 20 cent a gallon difference.

SharkD
08-08-2005, 10:21 AM
I run 93 in my chipped E24, but 89 in my stock E30 (but I splurge for 93 on track days).


According to this Post article from May... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/05/AR2005050502032.html)

Gas taxes -- the biggest factor in price differences among states -- can vary widely. In Maryland, state taxes on regular gas total 23.5 cents a gallon, whereas the District's rate is 20 cents a gallon. In Virginia, the state tax is 17.5 cents a gallon; there's also a 2 percent sales tax in locations that are part of a Northern Virginia transportation district.

rrsperry
08-10-2005, 08:33 AM
When I used to work for Amarada Hess, (I was the terminal supervisor for the Baltimore terminal in Curtis Bay, 3.4 million barrels of storage), all grades of gas had detergent. The difference was in what detergent "package" went into what gas. The detergent that went into reg and plus gas was about $3.00 a gal while the detergent in the prem gas was $38 a gal.

Independent gas brands such as Sheetz, Crown, and Mom and Pop's, would all get the cheaper additive package in all grades of gas. It meets the legal requirements for detergents. Only the Hess premium gas got the expensive additive. Obtw, we would also load any of the majors, Amoco, Shell, Mobil... if the had any problems with their own terminals. They got the cheap stuff

Sunoco had segregated tank storage in our terminal for their 94 octane gas and had a dedicated loading rack with a completely different and separate package of detergent.

The detergent is metered into the gas as the tanker is loading. The ACCULOAD system injects a metered amount of detergent. x# of cc's of detergent per y gallons of gas.

Gasoline was delivered to the terminal in Baltimore by ship, or by the Colonial Pipeline. The ship borne products were from our refinery in St Lucia, and the pipeline products came from Houston. The only two gasoline products that are not fungible, are Amoco's Ultimate, and Sunoco 94. Every other grade of gas is the same for all companies, as is fuel oil, heating oil, kero...

As for the pricing, vj is partially correct, it has a lot to do with how the gas gets there, deep water economics plays a big part. Ever wonder why NJ has lower prices the we do? They have refineries, that equals less transportation costs.

ob325
08-12-2005, 11:24 AM
Now I'm not complaining about the price of gas--I swore I wouldn't do that until it hit $3/gallon, which may be next week.

But what I am complaining about is the willy-nilly raising of gas prices. My example is the Shell station close to the office.

All last week and most of this week it was $2.599 for premium. On Thursday morning (yesterday), I noticed it was up to $2.619 and by the time I went home last night it was up to $2.699. But what really got me this morning was that it was $2.819 :icon_excl. At this rate, it will be over $3 by tomorrow. This is just fishy because I know the premium demand didn't increase that much overnight and neither did the price of wholesale gas.

But I'm not complaining about the price of gas.

1996 328ti
08-12-2005, 12:48 PM
My local Mobil was 2.7199 for premium this morning.
Now I understand that if the price of oil goes up the cost is passed on to the consumer, but wouldn't the profit be the same to the oil companies? Instead oil companies are recording record profits. Is there any other commodity that we purchase based on market speculation?

Dirichlet
08-12-2005, 02:52 PM
Sorry - the fact that it cost me over $45 to fill my tank today is absolute bulls**t. Can someone please tell me why, aside from speculation, the price for a gallon of gas is what it is?? And I don't want to hear about some refinery in texas having problems... This is go**am rediculous...

just my 274.9 cents...
and I am complaining about the price of gas

1996 328ti
08-12-2005, 07:36 PM
I passed a station tonight on Rockville pike. 2.99 ding ding ding.

ob325
08-13-2005, 07:54 AM
The price at the Shell this morning was up to $2.939. :icon_yike

I found it even more odd that the Exxon across the street was only at $2.719. Even with the 5% off on my Shell card, that's almost a no-brainer. What kind of funky economics is playing out here?

rluckan
08-16-2005, 12:53 PM
The sticker on the fuel filler door of my 2000 328Ci calls for 91 octane, but I have been using 93 because I have never seen 91 anywhere other than the local Sunoco which is .10 per gal higher than the others.

I guess I will try the above mix to try to get 91 and cut gas costs.

I saw $2.75 of the cut-rate Citgo station in Bel Air, MD today for premium. Let's hope it is not up to $3.00 by the time this posts!

M-technik-3
08-16-2005, 03:38 PM
Just to let you know I saw $3.02 a gallon in CT on Sunday. It just ticks me off how it's spiraling up yet, diesel which cost less to refine is past Gas prices. When in it cost $42 to fill an E30 early tank it's just outrageous.

"As for the pricing, vj is partially correct, it has a lot to do with how the gas gets there, deep water economics plays a big part. Ever wonder why NJ has lower prices the we do? They have refineries, that equals less transportation costs."

This maybe true but why did Wyoming have the lowest price yesterday. It's taxed base also.

I am just fortunate to have bought stock in Exxon prior to the merger.

peteinmd
08-22-2005, 04:36 PM
I'd be interested in what the additive packages contain - any performance benefit, one package vs. another? Or is it just for a 'cleaner' engine, whatever the definition of cleaner is (less carbon buidup?). It seems to me that we talk about the additives as something special when they could be just one company's idea of what 'we' want...

Anywho, I'd like to talk to someone knowledgeable regarding formulations, and why they felt their formulation was 'better' than competitors. Include, if remotely possible, makers of the fancy stuff sold at Summit... :)

Best,

Pete

4WDrift
08-24-2005, 05:00 AM
Here is a thread about generic brand gasoline on an excellent board for automotive discussion:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=003664;p=1

and this says that Chevron, Conoco, Phillips, 76, and Shell are the ones with the proper additive package. Don't know the status of Mobil, Exxon, Amoco, etc. Texaco outlets are mostly Shells now.
http://www.toptiergas.com/index.html

AlfaEric
08-31-2005, 08:24 AM
Now I'm not complaining about the price of gas--I swore I wouldn't do that until it hit $3/gallon, which may be next week.

But what I am complaining about is the willy-nilly raising of gas prices. My example is the Shell station close to the office.

All last week and most of this week it was $2.599 for premium. On Thursday morning (yesterday), I noticed it was up to $2.619 and by the time I went home last night it was up to $2.699. But what really got me this morning was that it was $2.819 :icon_excl. At this rate, it will be over $3 by tomorrow. This is just fishy because I know the premium demand didn't increase that much overnight and neither did the price of wholesale gas.

But I'm not complaining about the price of gas.
Ok, I'm anxiously awaiting your rant on gas prices... :tongue:

---Eric

ob325
08-31-2005, 11:53 AM
Ok, I'm anxiously awaiting your rant on gas prices... :tongue:

---Eric

It's still not $3 (at least it wasn't this morning--could be by afternoon). Ranting might be a bit more tame. Suddenly my spending $3+ for gas seems okay because I still have a home and car. And a bike, thankfully. :)

Now they are saying to expect $4. http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/31/news/gas_prices/index.htm?cnn=yes

woodym3
08-31-2005, 12:09 PM
gas taxes vary by county, hence the price difference.

many years ago premium gas had detergents in it that other grades didn't. nowadays most all gas has detergents. no advantage to going with premium to reduce deposits.

An article in the Post several years ago talked about the wholesalers having different prices for various parts of a county, even one as small as Arlington.
The only apparent reason is marketing purposes.

Lee Highway in Arlington between Harrison and Lexington Streets has 5 stations and they all appear to me to have the cheapest brand-name gas this side of Woodbridge.

AlfaEric
08-31-2005, 12:14 PM
It's still not $3 (at least it wasn't this morning--could be by afternoon). Ranting might be a bit more tame. Suddenly my spending $3+ for gas seems okay because I still have a home and car. And a bike, thankfully. :)

Now they are saying to expect $4. http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/31/news/gas_prices/index.htm?cnn=yes
There are several sites that track gas prices. They all seem to be surpassing their server limits as people are scrambling to save a few dollars. http://www.marylandgasprices.com

---Eric

NoSoup4U
08-31-2005, 12:40 PM
There are several sites that track gas prices. They all seem to be surpassing their server limits as people are scrambling to save a few dollars. http://www.marylandgasprices.com

---Eric

I wonder if people are like my mom -- drive 40 miles roundtrip to save 5-10 cents on a gallon, not realizing they are spending more money just to get that savings. Funny how money, in a lot of aspects, is purely psychological.

i.e., stores that say 50% off original price get more people to come in than those that have sales that say, 25% off the already markdown price, i.e., if pants were marked down 50%, you get another 25% off. The amt. of discount advertised is more impt. than the actual price paid ...

AlfaEric
08-31-2005, 12:45 PM
I wonder if people are like my mom -- drive 40 miles roundtrip to save 5-10 cents on a gallon, not realizing they are spending more money just to get that savings. Funny how money, in a lot of aspects, is purely psychological.

i.e., stores that say 50% off original price get more people to come in than those that have sales that say, 25% off the already markdown price, i.e., if pants were marked down 50%, you get another 25% off. The amt. of discount advertised is more impt. than the actual price paid ...
You mean I won't save money by driving to the beach this weekend? :confused: I think I'll try it anyway. :)

---Eric

OwnedbyDuncan
08-31-2005, 03:11 PM
Just paid $2.83 a gallon for Amoco Silver at the BP station on RT 28 just across the PW/Fairfax County line on Rt 28. I agree with Woody those stations on Rt 29 in arlington are the cheapest this side od Manassas and Catlett.

SharkD
08-31-2005, 04:33 PM
CNN is reporting that prices just spiked to $3.55/gal for premium in Atlanta, due to supply concerns.

woodym3
08-31-2005, 05:33 PM
An article in the Post several years ago talked about the wholesalers having different prices for various parts of a county, even one as small as Arlington.
The only apparent reason is marketing purposes.

Lee Highway in Arlington between Harrison and Lexington Streets has 5 stations and they all appear to me to have the cheapest brand-name gas this side of Woodbridge.

I came down Lee Highway tonight: Premium ranged from $3.059 at an Exxon at Westmoreland Street to 2.919 at the Sunoco. Most were $2.979.

SharkD
08-31-2005, 09:03 PM
This is criminal. Despite the fact that we just lost 17% of our refineries, 11% of our offshore wells and our only deepwater offshore oil facility, this is criminal.

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050901/capt.gagb10409010035.katrina_oil_gagb104.jpg?x=194&y=345&sig=fEdbIRT7VI7KNITdaUCJQw--

A gas station in Stockbridge, Ga., posts prices for gasoline from $5.87 to $6.07 per gallon Wednesday, Aug. 31, 2005. (AP Photo/Gene Blythe) (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/gagb10409010035)

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050901/capt.gagb10209010023.katrina_oil_gagb102.jpg?x=380&y=317&sig=5Ds3LMgmsdudrbngBxiuCg--

Gasoline customers check prices and leave at a BP station in Stockbridge, Ga., Wednesday, Aug. 31, 2005. Gasoline price soared Wednesday toward $3 a gallon in many parts of the country, surpassing that level in some places, such as this station, as key refineries and pipelines remained crippled by Hurricane Katrina, crimping supplies and leading to caps on the amount of fuel delivered to retailers. (AP Photo/Gene Blythe) (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/gagb10209010023)

SMOODY
09-01-2005, 05:07 AM
Look on the bright side. If this keeps up, you should be able to buy a Hummer (or any other large SUV) real cheap. :biggrin:

AlfaEric
09-01-2005, 08:33 AM
Look on the bright side. If this keeps up, you should be able to buy a Hummer (or any other large SUV) real cheap. :biggrin:
Wouldn't you know that I would go and buy an SUV just before this... :icon_doh:

---Eric

ob325
09-01-2005, 03:50 PM
My "reference" gas station in Arlington jumped overnight from $2.939 to $3.219 for premium. Even the cheap stuff was $3.02. Sadly, until gas gets to about $8/gallon it is still cheaper for me to drive to work than take Metro (not to mention the time savings). Please don't let it get to where Metro is cheaper.

Down here in Florida, my dad said he paid $2.78 this morning around 5am at the Gate on his way to work. Coming back from the airport it was $2.98. Gate is their cheaper carrier since it's refined locally (like Crown in DC). The national stations (Shell, BP) were just a few pennies cheaper than they were in Arlington this AM. I guess Florida is lucky because they aren't on the Colonial pipeline like we are in DC.

M-technik-3
09-01-2005, 04:34 PM
$3.19 at Hess Rt 1 Alexandria. Reserves were tapped and still going up.


Here comes a recession....

bwiz
09-14-2005, 11:45 AM
I was speaking with a friend of mine who works for Exxon Mobil and sells wholesale fuel through the pipelines and he says buying 89 octane is a waste. They mix 40% premium and 60% regular. He said you are better off mixing 50/50 your self or even 60/40 premium/regular and end up with 91 octane that way.

Anyway...I will still buy 93..too lazy to do two transactions at the pump and an entire tank you are only looking at a five bucks difference.

weezer
10-22-2005, 07:08 PM
Here's the thing......The Oil companies can charge whatever prices they can. Just so you all should know, most of our oil and gas are imported from Canada. Yep, they are The US' largest oil supplier and second is Venezuela, not Saudi Arabia and we don't get most of our gas from the gulf coast. Especially the northern part of The US. But why are we paying these prices? Call it free market economy, capitalistic, supply and demand, etc....but that's what it is. So, let's boycott buying gas on Sundays. Just one day out of the week, that should hit the oil companies a good 10-15% of less sales. So, all this talk in the news about not enough refinery is bull***t. Many US oil refineries were closed because it was cheaper to import gas (yes, gas not crude oil) from Canada and elsewhere.....remember the outsourcing of US jobs? Just like the steel industry not too long ago, the US autoparts industry recently and IT administrators currently?

Pinecone
10-25-2005, 07:45 AM
http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/gasout.asp

Yes, gas companies can charge what they want, but since there are other companies, who will gladly cut prices by 1 - 2 cents per gallon to increase the percentage of the business available, you get into a competition setup, which results in gas prices stabilizing to a fairly low price based on actual costs. It is called supply and demand and capitalism.

NoSoup4U
11-02-2005, 10:19 AM
It is interesting to see that the oil companies have profits in the BILLIONS. I guess the increase in gas prices was merited b/c crude oil cost so much more to refine ... I agree with Congress ... tax the crap out of those profits since they gouged the customers to get it.

Nick325xiT 5spd
11-02-2005, 10:34 AM
It is interesting to see that the oil companies have profits in the BILLIONS. I guess the increase in gas prices was merited b/c crude oil cost so much more to refine ... I agree with Congress ... tax the crap out of those profits since they gouged the customers to get it.
Why? What about all the money they lost when oil was dirt cheap? Why should they be penalized for increased demand? Why is it that the oil companies must operate with MUCH lower returns on investment than virtually any other company out there?

NoSoup4U
11-02-2005, 11:02 AM
Why? What about all the money they lost when oil was dirt cheap? Why should they be penalized for increased demand? Why is it that the oil companies must operate with MUCH lower returns on investment than virtually any other company out there?

Why? Do you own stock in oil companies or futures in them? ;)

I just find it disingenous that the oil companies stated they were going to LOSE a significant amount of money if they did NOT raise their prices; but, the 3rd quarter profits clearly indicate that this is not true. If they made millions -- that's one thing; but, give me a break, billions in profit? It shows that they did not need to raise their prices.

I mean, the problem I see is that they raised prices and the consumer price index on EVERYTHING also increased ... it's a domino effect felt across the entire spectrum and not just limited to oil production/gas companies. I do not mind the oil companies making legitimate increases in price to match increased costs -- but, it should be done within reason.

Nick325xiT 5spd
11-02-2005, 11:28 AM
Dude.

When you sell BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF OIL, your profit had better be in the billions. If it isn't, then you shouldn't be in business.

Either we nationalize our oil companies and set artificially low oil prices so that the U.S. government pays for this, or we stop whining about the oil companies making a 10% margin.

OwnedbyDuncan
11-02-2005, 01:44 PM
Last time I checked it is free country and you can make as much as you want as long as you do it legally or dont get caught. Look at the revenues or gross income of the oil companies. Damn sure hope they are generating profits in the billions. If you dont like capitalism leave the country. Pack up your crap and move to France or Sweden. Enjoy the taxes there. Exxon/Mobil did not do anything illegal or immoral. They made an honest buck a few billion times over. More power to them. So its okay for you to make as much as possible but not the the oil companies. What a load of crap! If you dont like their profits then dont buy gas. Get E320 and use biodiesel.

Pinecone
11-06-2005, 05:37 PM
Notice NO news story tells the PERCENTAGE profit?

Back when Exxon made 1 Billion in one quarter for the first time, everyone was up in arms. The profit, as a percentage of GROSS sales, was under 7%. And this was back when the prime was around 6%.

Nick is right, when you sell BILLIONS, you profits will be in billions also.

Psi5
11-06-2005, 07:30 PM
gas taxes vary by county, hence the price difference.


Mostly it is "zone pricing." Oil companies figure out what people in various zip codes can and will pay and then require their dealers to price accordingly. So, indirectly, it is real estate prices, SES, etc. of the residents rather than taxes (although that does account for some state-to-stae differences). Manssas Park and 234 Business are two of the lower SES areas in PW County and hence the lower prices. The same tanker truck can fill up two stations a few miles apart and the retail price can vary by 20 to 30 cents/gallon.

BTW, that BP on 28 just across the county line is always very busy and often out of gas because of all the Fairfax/Centreville residents driving a few miles south. I go there (or a few miles more ot the Sheetz) to save $4-5 per fill-up. Multiple that by two cars filling up once per week, and you have $400+ in savings per year.

Pinecone
11-07-2005, 10:08 AM
Also rent/lease for property and local taxes effect local gas prices.

Found the number, the record 3rd Quarter profits work out to be 7.5% on gross sales. Not a huge profit. Used to be the baseline for a business was 10% gross profit. Less than that was not good, more profit than that was a good thing.

And where does that profit go? Try to stockholders, like retirement funds, stock portfolios, most of which is held by small investors. Yes, the top execs get big bucks, but most of the profit goes tot eh investors.

NoSoup4U
11-07-2005, 05:51 PM
Thanks for clarifying. I didn't know there is a difference b/w profits and gross sales. When I hear "x" company made "y" profits -- I assume ALL of it was profit, i.e., billions made = actual billions made.

I always thought when someone says they make 'x' gross profits -- that is after all things are deducted, i.e., what they actually pocket after all expenses.

So, if someone tells me they made 400 million for the 4th quarter in profits, I need to ask them how much were their expenses then? Why is it called 'profits' then if it's not truly profits? Is this accounting semantics?

Nick325xiT 5spd
11-07-2005, 05:53 PM
Thanks for clarifying. I didn't know there is a difference b/w profits and gross sales. When I hear "x" company made "y" profits -- I assume ALL of it was profit, i.e., billions made = actual billions made.

I always thought when someone says they make 'x' gross profits -- that is after all things are deducted, i.e., what they actually pocket after all expenses.

So, if someone tells me they made 400 million for the 4th quarter in profits, I need to ask them how much were their expenses then? Why is it called 'profits' then if it's not truly profits? Is this accounting semantics?
They said that SALES were over $1 billion per day. Sales do not equal profits.

They made a few billion in profit. Pretty poor results given the amount of sales they had to make.

AlfaEric
11-07-2005, 06:03 PM
Thanks for clarifying. I didn't know there is a difference b/w profits and gross sales. When I hear "x" company made "y" profits -- I assume ALL of it was profit, i.e., billions made = actual billions made.

I always thought when someone says they make 'x' gross profits -- that is after all things are deducted, i.e., what they actually pocket after all expenses.

So, if someone tells me they made 400 million for the 4th quarter in profits, I need to ask them how much were their expenses then? Why is it called 'profits' then if it's not truly profits? Is this accounting semantics?
Gross Profit on Sales = Net Sales - Cost of Goods Sold

http://www.ameritrade.com/educationv2/fhtml/learning/uincomestates.fhtml

---Eric

Pinecone
11-07-2005, 07:23 PM
Yeap, basically for every $1 they sold, they made 7.5 cents. And that is not per dollar of retail sales, but wholesale sale of gas and oil products. The retailer is normally a franchise and makes some money to cover expenses and some amount of profit to keep him in business.

NoSoup4U
11-09-2005, 10:17 AM
Thanks guys -- what about 'losses' per quarter. When a company says they lost $400 million (i.e., JAL b/c of higher airline fuel costs) -- does it mean they ACTUALLY lost $400 million AFTER operating costs ...??

How does a company stay in business if for the last 12 quarters, they have lost money each quarter? Where is the money coming from to keep it operating?

AlfaEric
11-09-2005, 01:19 PM
Thanks guys -- what about 'losses' per quarter. When a company says they lost $400 million (i.e., JAL b/c of higher airline fuel costs) -- does it mean they ACTUALLY lost $400 million AFTER operating costs ...??

How does a company stay in business if for the last 12 quarters, they have lost money each quarter? Where is the money coming from to keep it operating?
They borrow it. Just because a company lost money for a while doesn't mean that it isn't good. The money is going somewhere, they could simply be re-investing potential profits (or borrowed money) into a future product.

---Eric

Pinecone
11-10-2005, 07:54 AM
Or they could be tapping cash reserves. Large companies have large reserves if they have had some good years. Delta did this for a while.

ob325
11-11-2005, 01:55 PM
Some companies will claim to lose money, but some transactions could be non-cash transactions such as amortization and depreciation.

Pinecone
11-14-2005, 08:59 AM
Absolutely, there is profit and there is profit. And GOOD accountants make moeny being able to legally make the IRS forms show littlet o no profit, while the company is actually making money. :)

BTW I saw a report, Exxon sold $100 billion of product. So it is actually to be expected that they would have a profit of billions.

MEDIA, hype that $billions without putting it into perspective.