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NoSoup4U
07-21-2005, 08:30 AM
http://www.apexperformance.net/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=55&cid=7

http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/store/track-safety/fire/essfire/#2040
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I purchased the above-referenced fire suppression 5.0L system and it was recommended by HMS. BOTH websites state that it is SCCA approved. I am driving a BMW prepped for IP in BMWCCA; but, I would also like to participate in ITE with SCCA.

I thought the fire suppression system I bought was a pretty damn good one; but, I am told by Kearney Racing, that the SCCA ITE book says that I must have a pressure gauge with an AFF system. John and Linda said there is NO WAY to put a pressure gauge on this system ... they said it operates mechanically, and thus, no pressure is generated until you PULL the mechanical cord ... so, normally, it will read zero. The two things mix together upon pulling; thus, generating the pressure.

Can you help please? Would the local SCCA approve? John and Linda said the safety steward would say no … since the rulebook specifically requires a pressure gauge to show that the system is full.

I've sent an email to Marshall (but he is ITS listed on SCCA) and also to the ITE director. I resent the email this morning, some reason, it bounced back to my work on wednesday night. But, if anyone knows for certain. I would really appreciate it.

Pinecone
07-24-2005, 08:40 AM
I would get all the info together for the tech people. Since ITE is a regional class, they can be somewhat flexible. Also what does the GCR rules say? For Safety Overall and IT specific?

Don't argue, just point out how the system works.

Good luck.

BTW you planning on running the Aug MARRS race?

OK, IT overall requires fire systems that meet GCR 17.22.

OK, 17.22 says that all classes need a fire supression system EXCEPT SS, IT, and Touring. But in 17.22.1 all AFFF bottles must have a functional pressure guage.

The next paragraph says the CO2 cartridge systems are acceptable as long as the seal of the cartridge is not punctured. Of course, it doesn't say that such system can do without a pressure guage, but a pressure gauge would read 0 like you said.

Seems like you have a shot. And either way I would write an email/letter to the comp board for clarification.

But, since it is advertised as SCCA legal, they should take it back, if it doesn't meet SCCA requirements.

BTW 17.22.2 says that IT cars can use a 2 pound hand held fire extinguisher. So if you intall a 2 pound dry chem fire extinguisher, your on board system is perfectly legal as it is no llonger a required system to mee the regulations. :)

NoSoup4U
07-25-2005, 05:43 PM
Thanks Terry. Here is what I received:

There appears to be several AFFF kits out there. The kit that bimmerworld sells has a small gauge. The kits that I linked above DO NOT have that gauge. However, those kits listed above ALSO have a C02 canister.

GCR 17.22.1 says ALL AFFF systems must have a pressure gauge.

GCR 17.22.2 says if you have a C02 powered system then you just need to show that the C02 system is not punctured. Typically, C02 canister will be mounted really close/on top of the AFFF system.

Thus, I called national SCCA and regional SCCA. National guy said that 17.22.2 overrules 17.22.1 -- he said that's something they'll need to eventually change probably since it does conflict, i.e., I have an AFFF system; but, I also have a C02 powered system. The latter rules. The regional SCCA guy said in his mind, it should be okay; but, this is a judgment call "regionally" and he said the rules are clear re: AFFF systems.

Final verdict -- bring GCR 17.22.2 with you and put it with your SCCA logbook the regional guy recommended. This way, if the safety steward kind of wonders, point him to the language. However, he said, it's no guarantee that I'll be allowed to pass since the language is conflicting. It's totally up to the person that day ... he said honestly, he doesn't think it is a problem; but, said there is no 100% guarantee that I'll pass safety if the steward views the two paragraphs differently.

Regional guy suggested I get something in writing from national guy. I asked national guy for something in writing ... (I think his name was John Bauer???) ... and he said no. GCR is pretty clear with C02 based systems that it is okay. So, take it for what it is worth if you are going ITE in the WDCR region.

I would like to do the MARRS race but, my harnesses are not here yet. I ordered them in March. I am desperately seeking a pair that I can just borrow this weekend, or a cheap pair (outdated/etc) that I can buy from someone. I'm not happy with g-force at the moment.

Pinecone
07-31-2005, 06:11 AM
Great, I would send a letter requesting clarification to teh Comp Board. It is confusing, and under the ruels of regulations (how they are SUPPOSED to be wrtten and read) same level lines do NOT modify each other. Ie 17.22.1 and 17.22.2 standa lone. 17.22 modifies everything under it. I do regs for a living. :)

But you will probably be OK with a copy of the regs and an explanation of the system.

As for the Aug race, it IS the 30th anneversary of MARRS. :) Contact OG Racing about some harnesses. ANd cancel your G-Force order.

If you end up there, look me up, I will be around the SRF paddock in or around the big rig with HRace on the side. Red and White #4 car.

JoelG
08-15-2005, 01:32 PM
I picked up a set of latch and link g-force harnesses friday afternoon at OG. Turned out the ones in my car had expired between april and now.