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Jed
07-22-2004, 11:02 AM
I've heard of the no brake exercise that NCC does at their driving schools. Obviously, it entails going through the track and not using the brakes. I would assume you are not going as fast as you normally would. What kind of techniques do you learn? Can someone explain it a little more. Sounds really cool.

Rafgar
07-22-2004, 04:18 PM
I've heard of the no brake exercise that NCC does at their driving schools. Obviously, it entails going through the track and not using the brakes. I would assume you are not going as fast as you normally would. What kind of techniques do you learn? Can someone explain it a little more. Sounds really cool.

Jed,

As you suggest, it *is* very cool.

You'd be surprised how fast you can go and still make the corners. Yes, you have to build up the speed, but it works.

The instructors teach you how to slow down without the brakes (and downshifting is frowned upon). The best way to slow down is to make the car weave back and forth across the track. You have to do this firmly and the car will slow down about 10mph per swerve (it's simple physics - the friction on the tires slows you down).

They also teach you how to guage your speed better, so you know how fast you can enter a turn and still make it around.

It's quite intimidating the first time you try it and, yes, you will step on the brakes many times because it's a habit.

The purpose of the exercise is to show you how fast you can enter a turn and to help prepare you for an emergency situation. What type of situation? Well, you're flying around the track on your last session of the day and your brakes suddenly give out as you are preparing to enter Turn 1. If you've never gone through that corner with no brakes, you might panic. If you've practiced going through with no brakes, you have a working plan to make it cleanly.

Hope that helps.

1996 328ti
07-22-2004, 10:52 PM
Actually weaving is frowned upon too. It makes some instructors car sick. :) You can actually slow down by gentle s turns. Depending on traffic youc an just ease off the throttle too. The fast swerving can be dangerous.

In no brakes you really have to think far ahead of the car. You pick a speed to enter a turn and gradually add to it. In my case I brake way to much in turn 10. My session after no brakes is always quicker and smoother. It really gets my eyes to look up further.

Like Rafael also said, it helps you prepare if something was to happen to your brakes or something was on the track.

It is not a crime to use your brakes if you need them.
I especially liked no brakes at the last school because my brakes were getting mushy.

Jed
07-22-2004, 11:13 PM
Actually weaving is frowned upon too. It makes some instructors car sick. :) You can actually slow down by gentle s turns. Depending on traffic youc an just ease off the throttle too. The fast swerving can be dangerous.

In no brakes you really have to think far ahead of the car. You pick a speed to enter a turn and gradually add to it. In my case I brake way to much in turn 10. My session after no brakes is always quicker and smoother. It really gets my eyes to look up further.

Like Rafael also said, it helps you prepare if something was to happen to your brakes or something was on the track.

It is not a crime to use your brakes if you need them.
I especially liked no brakes at the last school because my brakes were getting mushy.

Yeah, I've always wanted to learn something like that-just in case the brakes did ever go out-just one more thing to know! I've always wondered coming into turn one at Summit what would I do if my brakes were gone.

Most likely scream like a girl and go off into the gravel pit.

JLee
07-23-2004, 10:23 AM
i heard about this exercise too....sounds very interesting and beneficial.

jeff

1996 328ti
07-23-2004, 06:01 PM
Turn 1 does have options.
Of course you can go straight into the gravel.
You can also take the turn wide and run along the turtles.
You can easily go off at track out. It's flat and there is an access road there.

A couple years ago I went off in 1 twice in a row.
All you do is open the wheel, ride the turtles and drive off.
It's a non-issue.

What is also very important and people should do this every chance they can. Drive off line. Especially the outside. This will give you an opportunity to see what is out there if you need an escape.

FT
08-03-2004, 10:59 PM
In my last Jefferson outting, "no brakes" was one the exercises; and I can tell you, Jed, that it has been the most beneficial exercise for me ever since I have been tracking; and that is no exageration.

Also as a side note: I do understand the importance of it, BUT I am sick and tired of skidpad exercises :) Not doing them any more with my 4WD.

Jed
08-03-2004, 11:10 PM
Sounds like a very good skill to learn!

Is primarly taught on Jefferson? Or also on the Main Circuit? I've never been on there-only Main Circuit, like 3 times. Is it taught at every NCC DE?

Actually I like skidpad-only got to do it at one DE though. Haven't gotten sick of it yet. That guy from CarGuys, Aryan is the king! He took his Ford F550 dualie diesel and drifted it like for a minute on the skidpad.

FT
08-03-2004, 11:16 PM
I believe no-brake exercise is taught starting with the intermediate group; I have not had it during my days with the beginner group.

Jed
08-03-2004, 11:55 PM
So it may not be available in the novice group?

What determines intermediate grouping in NCC? How many DEs done with NCC or an aggregate track experience? Like if I had only a few-in my case a total of 4 DEs under my belt-would I be put in novice? Can you still request an instructor in intermediate?

FT
08-04-2004, 09:23 AM
I do not know the exact rules about classing people. I know it is done with some sort of points system, subsective evaluation of your instructors, power of you vehicle is also factored in.

In intermediate, you still have to have an instructor; even in advanced. Seldom I have seen NCC allowing you to go out solo frankly; which is something I support strongly - not allowing without instructors that is.

1996 328ti
08-04-2004, 06:53 PM
I hardly ever solo at NCC schools whereas I'm always signed off at other schools. Go figure.

As Fatih said, run groups depend on experience and car. It also depends on how many people are in that group. Typically we look for the run groups to be 15 each on the Jeff and 20 each on the main track. If we get 20 people in B for the Jeff, some will go to A and some will go to C. No one should ever take it personally. If we only have x spots we need to divide the groups equally.

You can request an instructor or you can request an instructor who drives a particular type of car. I used to request 2002 drivers when I had my 4 cylinder.

1996 328ti
08-04-2004, 06:57 PM
Also as a side note: I do understand the importance of it, BUT I am sick and tired of skidpad exercises :) Not doing them any more with my 4WD.
You can never have enough skid pad experience. Skid pad has made me so comfortable on the track. I don't even realize that I am correcting half the time until my instructor says, nice correction. Skid pad just makes it so natural. I have no experience with FWD or AWD.

FT
08-04-2004, 08:35 PM
Also as a side note: I do understand the importance of it, BUT I am sick and tired of skidpad exercises :) Not doing them any more with my 4WD.
You can never have enough skid pad experience. Skid pad has made me so comfortable on the track. I don't even realize that I am correcting half the time until my instructor says, nice correction. Skid pad just makes it so natural. I have no experience with FWD or AWD.
Yes, try the skidpad in a 4WD and you'll understand, and especially one with 3 differentials ;)

Jed
08-04-2004, 09:17 PM
I do not know the exact rules about classing people. I know it is done with some sort of points system, subsective evaluation of your instructors, power of you vehicle is also factored in.

In intermediate, you still have to have an instructor; even in advanced. Seldom I have seen NCC allowing you to go out solo frankly; which is something I support strongly - not allowing without instructors that is.

That's great! I like having an instructor to learn new things that maybe I have never thought of. I mean, I tend to think if you are a newbie and start going out by yourself because you "went to a bunch of DEs", you are possibly going to groove some really bad habits and become a really bad driver.