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View Full Version : 335i CATLESS DOWNPIPES ENGINE LIGHT



BimmerBum
02-09-2008, 07:40 PM
Got catless DP's installed. They add power and sound great. Had them install "engine light fix" - two o2-sensor bung extenders to put on each pipe's secondary o2 sensor. It is not a "fix" at all.

The light goes on about every other day, but frequently during highway driving to the point of nuisance, and to the point that I've just left the obd reset tool plugged in at all times. The engine goes into limp mode, and I have to pull over and restart to clear the light. The code is exhaust threshold related each time.

Does anyone know of ANY fix for this? Even an obd reset tool that would allow me to clear it real-time (without having to pull over and restart) would be great. Thanks

1996 328ti
02-09-2008, 08:25 PM
You removed your cats?

BimmerBum
02-09-2008, 09:52 PM
Yes. The 335i has four cats, I purchased (two) turbo downpipes that eliminate the two primary cats. The manufacturer's dyno graph (http://www.ultimate-racing.com/Products2/BMW/335i-StockVSCatlessVSHFCat.gif) shows rear wheel gain of ~28 hp and ~25tq over baseline. I was aware that they would trip the engine light outright, but thought that these bung extenders, marketed to remedy such a problem, would be effective.

1996 328ti
02-09-2008, 10:33 PM
You expect your car to pass emissions missing 2 cats?
Isn't that is a federal crime?

BimmerBum
02-09-2008, 11:15 PM
I perceived by your initial response that you would be going there. I also treat all people with respect and with that being said, I did not post to start an ethical debate or to be scolded, judged, or caused to explain my prior decision making in the name of the law. I would be happy to have a further debate with you on this matter, but please pm me.

I'd like to focus on solving the matter of my CEL

1996 328ti
02-09-2008, 11:19 PM
I was just trying to help you avoid a situation in 2 years when you go run your car through emissions.
Have you seen this post?
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2068165

mcoupemindy
02-10-2008, 10:00 AM
The check engine light can be elimited with O2 sims.

Good luck with you rotten egg smelling car.

p.s. Put the cats back on.

BimmerBum
02-10-2008, 01:05 PM
thanks guys....and the exhaust doesn't smell like rotten eggs...

OwnedbyDuncan
02-10-2008, 01:44 PM
Good luck trying to get the dealer and BMWNA to cover any warranty work even if its a piece of trim. They will notice your mods and will make any warranty coverage a PITA for you.

If you live NOVA good luck passing the visual for the safety inspection and the emissions inspection. Almost impossible in NOVA these days to cheat on the emissions. And the state police have cracked down hard on shops who play loose and fast on safety inspections!

After 30 years+ modifying, racing and working on cars I take dyno charts provided by after market part sellers with a grain of salt. And peak hp and torque gains are worthless.

There are a few few companies out there that are trustworthy and honest. Learned this the hard way.

Only way to tell for sure is with a stop watch on the track or Auto X course.

Cant tune sheep or dogs with after market parts. Can tune the handler though with good single malt and fine untaxed VA corn liquor.

Dave Apker and the collies

BimmerBum
02-10-2008, 05:25 PM
LOL. Thanks for your advice. I am fully aware of the emissions obstacle in 2yrs, but planned on swapping to bigger catted dps right at that time, as it would be $1000 in labor if I wanted to swap to oem then test, then swap back to track pipes. I just got the split second turbo tuner and am excited to see the results - I then plan on getting the dinan chip down the road which doesn't void the warranty.

As far as your claim on the dealer/BMWNA not honoring my warranty because of the pipes, I spoke with a technician at my dealer who claimed that downpipes would ONLY void the part of the warranty that covers the exhaust system specifically from my aftermarket part and back.

vjmvjmvjm
02-10-2008, 06:15 PM
LOL. Thanks for your advice. I am fully aware of the emissions obstacle in 2yrs, but planned on swapping to bigger catted dps right at that time, as it would be $1000 in labor if I wanted to swap to oem then test, then swap back to track pipes. I just got the split second turbo tuner and am excited to see the results - I then plan on getting the dinan chip down the road which doesn't void the warranty.

As far as your claim on the dealer/BMWNA not honoring my warranty because of the pipes, I spoke with a technician at my dealer who claimed that downpipes would ONLY void the part of the warranty that covers the exhaust system specifically from my aftermarket part and back.

That's nice (the warranty situation), and theoretically that's correct, but technicians don't make the call on what gets repaired under warranty. And if you push the issue with the service advisor / service manager, they'll undoubtedly mention the alleged illegality of the situation. You push them, they'll push you.

Considering the audience (the members of this message board, many of whom work for the gummint [including some at EPA]), I'm surprised that you'd want to reveal all of this information for public consumption.

Good luck.

Vic

OwnedbyDuncan
02-10-2008, 06:37 PM
LOL. Thanks for your advice. I am fully aware of the emissions obstacle in 2yrs, but planned on swapping to bigger catted dps right at that time, as it would be $1000 in labor if I wanted to swap to oem then test, then swap back to track pipes. I just got the split second turbo tuner and am excited to see the results - I then plan on getting the dinan chip down the road which doesn't void the warranty.

As far as your claim on the dealer/BMWNA not honoring my warranty because of the pipes, I spoke with a technician at my dealer who claimed that downpipes would ONLY void the part of the warranty that covers the exhaust system specifically from my aftermarket part and back.

And any part of the warranty regarding emissions, the engine, the tranny, the diff the rearend, glass, the radio. BMWNA is royal PITA to deal with for warranty work with any mods. And sorry hoss as Vic said the technician has little say in the matter. Dealers hate warranty work because NA is cheap. Any excuse not to honor the warranty and they will use it.

And BTW Dinan is one tuner whose products I would never buy. There stuff is way overpriced and their customer service sucks. There are other chip makers out their who give more bang for the buck. Is Dinan still cutting up the OEM BMW mufflers removing the insulation and rewelding them and charging 3 times the dealer price for their free flow mufflers?

And as always you modify the driver first and when you are as fast as the car then you do mods! $1000 in labor would have paid for a few drivers' schools. Have you timed the car on the track or autox course because the butt dyno is very unreliable unless it involves a hot female in a pair of jeans that takes hours to get off, bubba! Then rev it up.

I have actually installed products that showed nice gains on a chassis or engine dyno but were actually slower at the track.

And dont forget you have to pass a visual emissions for safety every year and I dont think VA has gone to two years yet. They will look under the hood.

Lot of money for what maybe a claimed 30rwhp and you having emissions issues?

Dave Apker and the collies

1996 328ti
02-10-2008, 07:00 PM
Dinan is no longer cutting up OE parts and reselling them.
Not everyone wants to go to the track.
Few insurance companies cover damage at the track now.
If there is a radio problem, it will be covered under warranty.

BimmerBum
02-10-2008, 09:03 PM
And any part of the warranty regarding emissions, the engine, the tranny, the diff the rearend, glass, the radio. BMWNA is royal PITA to deal with for warranty work with any mods. And sorry hoss as Vic said the technician has little say in the matter. Dealers hate warranty work because NA is cheap. Any excuse not to honor the warranty and they will use it.

And BTW Dinan is one tuner whose products I would never buy. There stuff is way overpriced and their customer service sucks. There are other chip makers out their who give more bang for the buck. Is Dinan still cutting up the OEM BMW mufflers removing the insulation and rewelding them and charging 3 times the dealer price for their free flow mufflers?

And as always you modify the driver first and when you are as fast as the car then you do mods! $1000 in labor would have paid for a few drivers' schools. Have you timed the car on the track or autox course because the butt dyno is very unreliable unless it involves a hot female in a pair of jeans that takes hours to get off, bubba! Then rev it up.

I have actually installed products that showed nice gains on a chassis or engine dyno but were actually slower at the track.

And dont forget you have to pass a visual emissions for safety every year and I dont think VA has gone to two years yet. They will look under the hood.

Lot of money for what maybe a claimed 30rwhp and you having emissions issues?

Dave Apker and the collies

I agree Dinan is all name and hype compared to what is available from other companies. Like I said, I ordered the split second chip which is 1/4 the price of dinan's and has comparable claimed performance. It's just that dinan's chip there is no risk whatsoever of voiding warranty as they are approved by bmwna. In terms of other products from dinan - exhaust-suspension components, I'd go elsewhere. For instance, my downpipes were $580, Supersprint dps are $2500. By the time emissions comes I'll have my shop put on the hi flow cats so I don't have to spend $1000 every two years just to pass. For future reference, MD doesn't have annual inspections. Just 2year emissions tests.

BimmerBum
02-10-2008, 09:33 PM
It seems that you guys have experience with bmw dealer service/warranty policy - I have none since I'm a first time owner of several months (but lifetime enthusiast)...I am familiar with the VW dealer and can relate to PITA policies.

Recently, I had an interesting conversation with the owner of a well known nova shop. He has been a decades long porche/bimmer owner and scca racer. He claimed that the dealer cannot void warranty unless it can be proved that the aftermkt component explicitly caused the failure in question. I told him about how the dealer said installing a BOV would void engine warranty (which I have no plans to do), he said that was BS unless they could somehow attribute the bov to an engine problem in question. He also went so far as to claim he helped a porche owner get covered over an engine that threw a rod because the chip he had installed removed the rev limiter.

I remained skeptical in conversation, and he proceeded to reiterate his claims. He said the service team has twisted his arm but he twists it back and gets his way. Thoughts? First hand experiences?

1996 328ti
02-10-2008, 09:50 PM
Recently, I had an interesting conversation with the owner of a well known nova shop. He has been a decades long porche/bimmer owner and scca racer. He claimed that the dealer cannot void warranty unless it can be proved that the aftermkt component explicitly caused the failure in question.
That is true. Something with your exhaust can not cause a failure to say your radio. A warranty could not be denied. If you installed an aftermarket radio and your dash burns up. Electrical system warranty voided.


He also went so far as to claim he helped a porche owner get covered over an engine that threw a rod because the chip he had installed removed the rev limiter.

I remained skeptical in conversation, and he proceeded to reiterate his claims. He said the service team has twisted his arm but he twists it back and gets his way. Thoughts? First hand experiences?
I'm skeptical too. Why would a manufacturer pay out a warranty when it was clearly not their fault? Especially caused by misuse.
This sounds like a NoVA indi that I used to go to before he raped me.

OwnedbyDuncan
02-11-2008, 09:11 AM
Warranty claims depends on who you are. Service manager at Heishman's was telling me a story many years ago about an owner of a 5 series who had his car towed in with 83K miles on it. Engine seized. Owner had never
changed the oil. BMWNA repalced the eninge under warranty becuase the individual's last name was Kennedy.

Modifications give BMWNA an excuse to make you life hell.

Back when I was first doing drivers' schools I had my rotors replaced a couple times at least under warranty at Heishman's. Never with a problem but back then the parts manager helped with the schools in the tower, several mechanics and sales folks did our schools. I had problems with NA
when my AC condenser failed just outside of the warrnty but I had documeted problems with the AC on previous visits. I got some money using the club's ombudperson. nad I dont wnat to get into the fights about my diff.

My bro when he purchased his 3 back in 199 had all kinds of problems with warranty work with BMW of Sterling. He got black listed because he answered his customer survey honestly. he was denied a service loaner because he went to another dealer for work ebcause Sterling ahd no available appointments.

You are taking a chance with NA. Hopefully you last name is Clinton or Mccain hoss.

Best of luck

Dave Apker and the collies

Dave Apker and the collies

ErikT
02-11-2008, 11:02 AM
I don't have any experience with BMW warranty, but my experiance with VW warranty was very mixed. With things they knew would be covered, they fixed as much as possible (more than necessary). When the radio died, they simply ordered a new one (it was only a bad fuse). When my rear hatch needed to be re-aligned, they ordered all new seals/gaskets & installed them. Since they knew they were getting reimbursed, they did everything (and bumped up their billable hours).

Since BMW dealers are independently owned, any warranty work needs to be approved by BMW NA. While the legal burden of proving your aftermarket parts caused the problem may be on them...it won't stop them from denying your initial claim and making you jump through hoops.

I hope you're not commuting too far. You may still be cleaner than my E30 missing 2 cats...but I'm suprised you didn't go with a new system that would still pass emissions (and not throw error codes).

MD emissions for newer cars is computer-only interface. If you solve the error code issues, you may not have any issues with MD emissions.

jhm5
02-11-2008, 06:16 PM
You say "Got catless DP's installed. They add power and sound great. Had them install "engine light fix" - two o2-sensor bung extenders to put on each pipe's secondary o2 sensor. It is not a "fix" at all."
Contact the folks who sold you this stuff and tell them. Get your money back. Put the cats back... and O2 sensors. Clear the errors. Your car will run properly and pollute less.

1996 328ti
02-11-2008, 06:40 PM
MD emissions for newer cars is computer-only interface. If you solve the error code issues, you may not have any issues with MD emissions.They visually check for the cats. They can be gutted but as long as there is no CEL, you are clear.

BimmerBum
02-11-2008, 08:06 PM
Well, I work from home, and drive mostly for enjoyment - not even all days of the week. Hardly as criminal as Jane Escalade-Soccer-Mom, burning 80gal/week. As previously mentioned I'll probably end up getting the hi flo cats.