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View Full Version : VIR Full Course Trackday... Aug. 30th/31st- Registration Open!



78 Rocco
06-22-2007, 09:50 AM
To everyone that has participated in one of our track events under the CAC NorEast R32 group, we would like to thank you for making those events so successful. I am sad to say, CAC NorEastR32 is no longer, kaput, finished.

Due to the success of our events Jeremy and I could not just leave people "hanging". So we have decided to continue our events under a new name: TrackDaze.

With the formation of TrackDaze you can be sure to expect the same high quality, fun, and exciting event. We have tried to take the best of all of our experiences at track events and put them all together in what we hope will continue to be a great HPDE program.

Of course with a new name comes a new face:
Track Daze High-Performance Driving (www.trackdaze.com)

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/78Rocco/TrackDaze.jpg

I would also like to announce that our August 2007 VIR full course HPDE registration is now open on the new website. We apologize for the delay in opening registration. There are now 3 convenient ways to pay registration fees: paypal, google-checkout, and mail-in check.

Please go here to register: www.trackdaze.com

If you have any questions about anything please, as always, feel free to contact us at info@<hidden>

Thank you again and we look forward to seeing you at our events.
Eric Campbell

fpol
06-22-2007, 02:14 PM
I was thinking of going down Sept 1/2, but this might be another option. I'm partial to weekday track events.

78 Rocco
06-22-2007, 02:20 PM
I was thinking of going down Sept 1/2, but this might be another option. I'm partial to weekday track events.


Heck yeah... Take Thurs and Fri off... still have your 3 day weekend too..:wink: Best of both worlds and probably keeps the "other half" happy...:biggrin:

Car54
06-27-2007, 07:37 PM
I'm in! Anyone interested in caravaning down there?

1. Craig

Scany
07-05-2007, 08:18 PM
I am really interested in going and get in my first US track day (only in Norway this far). Seems like I'll have to go down by myself, friends and family does not seem to be interested. If there's a group going down, I would very much like to join.

78 Rocco
07-06-2007, 07:30 AM
I am really interested in going and get in my first US track day (only in Norway this far). Seems like I'll have to go down by myself, friends and family does not seem to be interested. If there's a group going down, I would very much like to join.

I'm sure you guys could also hook up with a few of the R32 drivers as well.. quite of few of them coming down from the NY/NJ/PA/DC area as well... :)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3319609

Power_mind
07-06-2007, 01:03 PM
Looking forward to seeing you guys down there! :icon_rock

Scany
07-06-2007, 04:10 PM
Ok, let me register and I'm in. Are you still going Craig? Want company of a 5'er? :)

Car54
07-09-2007, 10:53 AM
I'm in for sure, don't mind the company. The more the merrier!

Power_mind
07-10-2007, 02:36 PM
UPDATE:

For those that have already registered & paid, as well as those that do register and PAY in Full by August 3rd, You will be entered for a Chance to Win a couple Great Prizes! *

- One Grand Prize be will awarded- A full refund of your registration fee for the August VIR Event.. $350!

- 1st Prize will be a voucher good for one free registration at a future Track Daze event!

We are also pleased to announce that 2 of our Partners and Sponsors have again committed to supporting the event:

Volkswagen of America will again be showing its support by bringing out a few cars for test rides and drives. www.vw.com (http://www.vw.com/)

Induktion Motorsports has also joined as a sponsor of our event. www.4induktion.com (http://www.4induktion.com/)

We look forward to seeing you at our event.

Stay Tuned for more Great Stuff from Track Daze High-Performance Driving....

*Instructors are not eligible for the raffle drawings. Drawing to take place at the event.

78 Rocco
07-10-2007, 04:14 PM
UPDATE:

For those that have already registered & paid, as well as those that do register and PAY in Full by August 3rd, You will be entered for a Chance to Win a couple Great Prizes! *

- One Grand Prize be will awarded- A full refund of your registration fee for the August VIR Event.. $350!

- 1st Prize will be a voucher good for one free registration at a future Track Daze event!

Stay Tuned for more Great Stuff from Track Daze High-Performance Driving....

*Instructors are not eligible for the raffle drawings. Drawing to take place at the event.

:eek: :wink: So how about a roughly 1 in 50 chance at a FREE Track Event... Don't delay... A great deal just got better... Get those BMW's signed up...

Scany
07-10-2007, 05:44 PM
I registered this weekend and can't wait. :)

fpol
07-10-2007, 11:05 PM
It's this or another event that weekend for me so I've got a question to finalize my decision - how long are your run sessions?

Power_mind
07-11-2007, 07:41 AM
It's this or another event that weekend for me so I've got a question to finalize my decision - how long are your run sessions?


each participant will get 4 25min sessions each day.

fpol
07-11-2007, 08:30 AM
each participant will get 4 25min sessions each day.

Thanks,

25 minutes is pretty decent at VIR full.

Car54
07-11-2007, 03:01 PM
Anyone looking into staying at The Lodge?

http://www.virclub.com/vir/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=35&Itemid=165

78 Rocco
07-11-2007, 04:31 PM
Anyone looking into staying at The Lodge?

http://www.virclub.com/vir/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=35&Itemid=165

Yeah, the Lodge is open and the rate is $89/night...

There are a few Garage Suites Available too.. $99/night... I got one of those..

We're also working on a Group Rate for the Sleep Inn... Should be posted next week...:)

fpol
07-16-2007, 01:57 PM
Registered.

Power_mind
07-17-2007, 09:35 AM
:cool:

Scany
07-17-2007, 09:55 AM
I'd like to stay at the lodge. Have to reserve I guess..

Power_mind
07-17-2007, 12:20 PM
Sleep Inn group rate is $75 a night. Info is on our website in the event details page.

fpol
07-17-2007, 02:08 PM
While I typically stay further away at the Hampton, the Sleep Inn at $75.00 is a good rate and they let you do some wrenching in the parking lot (well they did) so if you need to change pads or anything the night before...

It's also next to gas/supermarket/autostore and even a self wash place - plus it's just a short push to the track.

All rooms don't have microwave/fridge though.

Power_mind
07-17-2007, 02:29 PM
i was there in June and they still allow the wrenching in the lot as well as the gravel lot next to them.

78 Rocco
07-25-2007, 06:58 PM
Don't forget.... Get registered and paid by Aug. 3rd for a chance at the Free Track Daze Prizes....

Power_mind
08-08-2007, 07:39 AM
3 weeks to go! :cool:

Car54
08-09-2007, 11:24 PM
I'm officially in. 100min/day is good, what's the classroom scene like? Scany, are you still interested in hooking up to ride down there? Anyone interested in the karting enduro?

Power_mind
08-10-2007, 02:00 PM
There will be 2 classroom sessions each day. Our classroom instruction is done by Jeff Curtis of NASA!

We also will have a few Koni Challenge Race teams joining us for the event.:)

fpol
08-14-2007, 08:55 PM
We also will have a few Koni Challenge Race teams joining us for the event.:)

Sweet - glad I decided to try you guys out. 3rd and final trip to VIR full this year - that trip get's $$$.

Do you guys know if F&S will be there doing photography?

fpol
08-14-2007, 08:58 PM
I'm officially in. 100min/day is good, ...


You should try 130 minutes in 97+ degree heat... ;).

78 Rocco
08-15-2007, 08:26 AM
Sweet - glad I decided to try you guys out. 3rd and final trip to VIR full this year - that trip get's $$$.

Do you guys know if F&S will be there doing photography?

Cool... Glad your coming out... Think you'll be pleased with the event..

And Yes, F&S will be there taking pics, etc....

profbooty
08-16-2007, 10:13 AM
You should try 130 minutes in 97+ degree heat... ;).

on a motorcycle :D

Car54
08-17-2007, 09:01 PM
:cool:
on a motorcycle :D

I do quite a bit on the belt-way! NE1 interested in caravanning down there from FFX?

78 Rocco
08-22-2007, 02:56 PM
One week to go.... Still some spots open in all groups, Especially Advanced and Intermediate...

Come on, you guys are going to miss a great event...

Scany
08-25-2007, 06:05 PM
I'm officially in. 100min/day is good, what's the classroom scene like? Scany, are you still interested in hooking up to ride down there? Anyone interested in the karting enduro?

The end of August came fast this year. I'm definately interested in driving down there together. What time are we looking at? And from where? I come from NorthWest DC, and pretty much anytime works as long as I got my day of work in on Wed. (usually means to 3pm).

Sorry about the late reply.. :frown:

fpol
08-25-2007, 09:09 PM
Since Tech is Wednesday at the track at 05:30 PM, does anyone know how soon we can arrive at the track. I've seen some insane lines into the track for Friday tech with the Mazda Drivers events and would prefer get in early and just wait at the track if possible.


...looking at the entry list, sure wish I was back running in beginner.

Power_mind
08-27-2007, 02:04 PM
I can't say for sure when they will allow us to enter the paddock areas early. There wasn't anyone scheduled to use the track on Wednesday but a private race team rental happened last minute.

Car54
08-27-2007, 08:30 PM
...looking at the entry list, sure wish I was back running in beginner.

What does that mean? Hey are you coming from Arlington? Want to caravan down there with Scany and myself?

Scany
08-28-2007, 08:39 AM
VIR is further away than I initially thought. oups! :cool:

I understand the line for Tech can get long... hopefully we'll be there early enough to catch the Wed. registration so I don't have to hassle with it Thurs. morning.

But leaving earlier than 1pm from DC is a bit too early. If you guys wanna meet up after the Beltway on I95 at about 1:30 I might be able to join.

fpol
08-28-2007, 02:36 PM
What does that mean? Hey are you coming from Arlington? Want to caravan down there with Scany and myself?

Beginner has only 10 people - everything above Novice considerably more.

Yes, I'm leaving out of Arlington, but my egress time is kind of sketchy since i had to take care of some Power steering line issues today after my tech and I still have to get a tire mounted. Almost thought I'd have to miss going up Wednesday completely!

Have you guys been to VIR before? Best bet is to keep it within 8 miles of the posted speed south of Richmond. You can get lucky, but...

Scany
08-28-2007, 10:59 PM
I guess I'm one of the ten in beginner :rolleyes: Never been to any US track before and driven my (or any other for that matter) own car. I've only had a couple of trackdays in Norway around a go-cart track topping 2nd at the most.

Can't wait. Hope to see you guys there.

8mph it is :biggrin: I'm sure there'll be other things to spend money on after this.

Car54
09-01-2007, 11:07 AM
Well, I guess I read this a little too late about the 8mph over...got nailed right before I-85 going 71/55. There were absolutely 0 cars around and the LEO was going the other way and doubled back to get me. I really didn't need this expense...anyone know a good traffic lawyer down there?

Had a great time at the event, really a 1st class group of people attending and running the event.

fpol
09-01-2007, 04:45 PM
Wow man that sucks. I've seen someone nailed at least once all but one trip I've made. Just put on the radio and chill at a few over.

Glad you enjoyed the event. How did Friday go? I lost my motor in the last session Thursday so that was it for me. Believe it or not, I only just got home (~03:30 PM Saturday!!) after returning the Uhaul. What a nightmare.

If I even have a car year - I may do Trackdaze again up here at Shenandoah/Main, but I think I'm cutting back my ViR trips to MM in June and Car Guys in August - or get a Tarheal if i can.

woodym3
09-01-2007, 05:15 PM
Had a great time at the event, really a 1st class group of people attending and running the event.

I wasn't there, but not sure I could would make the above statement about the running of the event. I understand a first timer was allowed out the first session, first day without an instructor and proceeded to roll a Cobra replica at the top of roller coaster. No injuries thankfully. I hope someone can correct this story.

Car54
09-01-2007, 06:56 PM
Well then the 50' trailer it pulled up in must have fooled the officials into letting the lady out in the advanced group then. Seriously, it was early in the morning, still a little wet, and she was in atleast intermediate group. I think it was advanced, and it was only a single roll cage so an instructor could not ride. They had the Cobra back out later that day....should mention they wrecked their Porche that afternoon too. Poor rich folks!

getfast
09-01-2007, 09:11 PM
I wasn't there, but not sure I could would make the above statement about the running of the event. I understand a first timer was allowed out the first session, first day without an instructor and proceeded to roll a Cobra replica at the top of roller coaster. No injuries thankfully. I hope someone can correct this story.

Woody, your statements are incorrect. She was an advanced driver out during the first session for that group on Thursday morning. She rolled the Cobra in T14 and walked away totally unhurt. The car was back on track that afternoon. She was NOT a first timer, she was NOT in a group that used instructors (TrackDaze advanced = NASA HPDE3, i.e. passing anywhere with a point by), and she COULDN'T have had an instructor anyway due to her Cobra's single roll hoop. She was the first one to admit that she made a big mistake all by herself with no other cars around, and the first to tell anyone and everyone that her wreck had NOTHING to do with the event organizers or anything but her own unfortunate error.

I was there, working as Event Director & Control. The above statements are FACTS, not internet rumors. Please send them along to whoever told you otherwise, because their information is wrong.

Thanks,

Jon

woodym3
09-01-2007, 09:14 PM
Like I said, I don't know the facts. Even if she had lots of prior experience, since when do you allow someone to solo based on the size of the car hauler?

getfast
09-01-2007, 09:20 PM
Like I said, I don't know the facts. Even if she had lots of prior experience, since when do you allow someone to solo based on the size of the car hauler?

Their hauler has nothing to do with anything. She applied - and was verified by TrackDaze - as an Advanced-level, passing-in-corners with a point by, driver. I don't know her exact experience but it must have been significant to get into that run group. Then she went out and made a mistake. Unfortunate, but... it happens.

AFAIK the only two incidents were from her and her partner with the red 911 (light right side impact into tirewall.) Needless to say, they won't be invited back...

Jon

78 Rocco
09-01-2007, 09:37 PM
Woody, your statements are incorrect. She was an advanced driver out during the first session for that group on Thursday morning. She rolled the Cobra in T14 and walked away totally unhurt. The car was back on track that afternoon. She was NOT a first timer, she was NOT in a group that used instructors (TrackDaze advanced = NASA HPDE3, i.e. passing anywhere with a point by), and she COULDN'T have had an instructor anyway due to her Cobra's single roll hoop. She was the first one to admit that she made a big mistake all by herself with no other cars around, and the first to tell anyone and everyone that her wreck had NOTHING to do with the event organizers or anything but her own unfortunate error.

I was there, working as Event Director & Control. The above statements are FACTS, not internet rumors. Please send them along to whoever told you otherwise, because their information is wrong.

Thanks,

Jon

Thanks for clarifying and setting the record straight. As Jon said, this was an unfortunate driver error by a very experienced driver, early in the day. But thankfully and most importantly she walked away with little more than a bruised ego.

Anyone that knows us and has been to one of our events can attest that like Jon and the crew from Get Fast, safety is at the top our our list also. So from this we will learn as well.

Regards, Eric

fpol
09-02-2007, 12:36 PM
Woody - their event was exceptional in terms of timing and logistics. Perhaps one of the best events I've been to in that regard.

Where they were not exceptional for me as a BMW CCA guy (and CCA schools get their own criticism from the "I want to drive solo with just 3 days experience" crowd), is in classing. They seem to go on the pick your class based on # of days method. I'm a fan of the NCC earn your way method. Nothing wrong with earning a solo sticker if you're anything lower than advanced.

I've got 29 days (10 w/NCC) - get way more point bys than I give, yet NCC CCA has me in B group - which is awesome. EARN your stripes. That B group is on average faster and to a man much more observant than the intermediate group i ran with this week.

...and CCA had instructors in the car all weekend - so *just* running solo means squat.

The incident though- I've seen as many in heavily instructed schools as otherwise, so I doubt that was TrackDaze fault. Bending cars seems pretty common in upper int/Advanced groups for whatever reason.

fpol
09-02-2007, 12:39 PM
By the way - anyone know what is behind the long sleeve cotton top/pants requirement. Personally i never wear shorts so it's no issue, and really could care less about the top - but it seems odd as a requirement. I mean is a long sleeve cotton pants/shirt going to do any more good in a fire than shorts?

Just wondering?

1996 328ti
09-02-2007, 03:58 PM
By the way - anyone know what is behind the long sleeve cotton top/pants requirement. Personally i never wear shorts so it's no issue, and really could care less about the top - but it seems odd as a requirement. I mean is a long sleeve cotton pants/shirt going to do any more good in a fire than shorts?

Just wondering?Could protect you from glass shards. Cotton gives you one more layer until your skin. Those are my guesses.

1996 328ti
09-02-2007, 04:05 PM
Woody - their event was exceptional in terms of timing and logistics. Perhaps one of the best events I've been to in that regard.

Where they were not exceptional for me as a BMW CCA guy (and CCA schools get their own criticism from the "I want to drive solo with just 3 days experience" crowd), is in classing. They seem to go on the pick your class based on # of days method. I'm a fan of the NCC earn your way method. Nothing wrong with earning a solo sticker if you're anything lower than advanced.

I've got 29 days (10 w/NCC) - get way more point bys than I give, yet NCC CCA has me in B group - which is awesome. EARN your stripes. That B group is on average faster and to a man much more observant than the intermediate group i ran with this week.

...and CCA had instructors in the car all weekend - so *just* running solo means squat.

The incident though- I've seen as many in heavily instructed schools as otherwise, so I doubt that was TrackDaze fault. Bending cars seems pretty common in upper int/Advanced groups for whatever reason.I'm going to go a bit off topic but pretty much NCC A and B groups have similar experience. I think one difference may be that A group have instructors in training.

But if you read some of the students' posts on their own boards about this past school, they don't want to learn. They just want to drive fast. I've had people ask me how many schools do I need before they can solo at an NCC. I tell them, save your money. If you want to be signed off, our schools are not for you.

It's a given that many 'schools' will sign off students due to the lack of instructors. It's a shame. Students don't know what they are missing.

Eric and Jon, that is not directed to you. Just a general comment.

78 Rocco
09-02-2007, 04:24 PM
I'm going to go a bit off topic but pretty much NCC A and B groups have similar experience. I think one difference may be that A group have instructors in training.

But if you read some of the students' posts on their own boards about this past school, they don't want to learn. They just want to drive fast. I've had people ask me how many schools do I need before they can solo at an NCC. I tell them, save your money. If you want to be signed off, our schools are not for you.

It's a given that many 'schools' will sign off students due to the lack of instructors. It's a shame. Students don't know what they are missing.

Eric and Jon, that is not directed to you. Just a general comment.

No problem, we honestly appreciate the feedback and constructive criticism. It is just the "rumors" and assumptions that needed to be addressed.

It is our intent and practice to have people "work" their way up through our ranks and demonstrate the ability to be in the upper groups based on skill, not just number of days. We look out for people that are not ready for the group they sign up for and bumped a couple down last week. We work hard to verify experience, but at the end of the day when people are coming from different clubs with different rules and methods of advancing up it is a challenge and personal responsibility comes into play, with number of previous events and the level at other organizations being our only real gauge until they attend one of our events and we can begin evaluating them ourselves.

So my question for the NCC guys, is if someone signs up for your event and says they are a NASA HPDE 3 level or ACNA advanced level driver, where would you put them and how would you handle/validate?

Thanks again and you can rest assured we will continue to work hard to improve and safety is our #1 goal. It is not our desire to be known as a club that just turns guys loose and we don't want the students that only want that either. We all know there already is somewhere (no names mentioned..) they can go...:wink:

78 Rocco
09-02-2007, 04:27 PM
By the way - anyone know what is behind the long sleeve cotton top/pants requirement. Personally i never wear shorts so it's no issue, and really could care less about the top - but it seems odd as a requirement. I mean is a long sleeve cotton pants/shirt going to do any more good in a fire than shorts?

Just wondering?

The long sleeve shirt and pants is VIR's rule/requirement.

woodym3
09-02-2007, 06:19 PM
Their hauler has nothing to do with anything. She applied - and was verified by TrackDaze - as an Advanced-level, passing-in-corners with a point by, driver. I don't know her exact experience but it must have been significant to get into that run group. Then she went out and made a mistake. Unfortunate, but... it happens.

AFAIK the only two incidents were from her and her partner with the red 911 (light right side impact into tirewall.) Needless to say, they won't be invited back...

Jon
Jon and all,
When I made the comment about the size of the car hauler I was responding to GSpot35 and hadn't seen your post that was made just before mine. I also didn't realize you were involved with this event Jon.

Student run group assignments is always a difficult job, particularily for a new organization that doesn't have a data base of of student histories and evaluations. I learned long ago that the number of track days on a student's resume is just one indicator of how good they might be. All BMWCCA chapters I run with require an instructor in the right seat unless they are completely familiar with that student. Some go so far as to allow known students to solo with instructors on a Friday instructor practice day, but then require an instructor during the Saturday sessions until "signed off" for solo.

I am glad to know I was wrong about the Cobra driver's experinence. Jon, I'm also surprised when you said she and the 911 driver would not be invited back. Unless there's more to it that I don't know, it seems everyone should be given a second chance to develop their driving skills in a safe manner. Unfortunately you and I have both seen first session incidents, even in the instructor group. It has plagued all organizations.
Woody

getfast
09-03-2007, 12:16 AM
I am glad to know I was wrong about the Cobra driver's experinence. Jon, I'm also surprised when you said she and the 911 driver would not be invited back. Unless there's more to it that I don't know, it seems everyone should be given a second chance to develop their driving skills in a safe manner. Unfortunately you and I have both seen first session incidents, even in the instructor group. It has plagued all organizations.
Woody

Thanks Woody. There's nothing you don't know. They were both perfectly nice people and everyone's entitled to a second chance but this is a safety issue so I have to wonder if there's a mindset between 'em that could be an issue at a later date. I'd recommend putting an instructor with 'em in the future to hopefully keep such a thing from ever happening again.

I am guilty of a first session instructor group incident myself. It cost me a great little short bumper E30 325is on Shenandoah two summers ago. My instance was a mistake (mechanical failure followed by driver error) but luckily I was allowed back. Therefore I see your point...

You know I've been around for years. I don't claim to be an expert but I do know a thing or two thanks to my experience in the NASA ranks particularly. It has been an honor and a pleasure to help TrackDaze develop their program and I promise you, these guys are serious about safety and about putting together an even better program in the future. All constructive criticism is greatly appreciated - TrackDaze is listening!

Time for bed,

Jon

fpol
09-03-2007, 10:32 AM
It's a given that many 'schools' will sign off students due to the lack of instructors. It's a shame. Students don't know what they are missing.


No question that a major problem is the ego of many students and the perceived 'status' of driving solo. There are more "I fly solo" type drivers out there than we'd care to believe. The truth is though, nothing beats keeping a good instructor silent and having them thank you for a good run, followed closely by them then finding that thing you're just not doing perfectly and focusing on getting you to correct it even when you *thought* you were doing great.

When you sit in a classroom and realize just how little intermediate level guys know about driving dynamics, etc, you wonder how they think that they can self coach running solo - so the natural reaction to being passed is looking for speed in tires, mods, etc well before they can hit the apex on a given turn twice in succession.

By the way, loved the 3x30 minute sessions each day (well Thursday at least) - more than advertised, and really seems like a good fit for VIR Full. I've driven some 40 minutes there in 98+ degree heat and those were loooong.

1996 328ti
09-03-2007, 10:48 AM
By the way, loved the 3x30 minute sessions each day (well Thursday at least) - more than advertised, and really seems like a good fit for VIR Full. I've driven some 40 minutes there in 98+ degree heat and those were loooong.Depending on the rhythm of the session, I'm looking for the checkered at 25 minutes.

I remember my first classroom with Miriam.
Most of us were first timers. She asked, how many know how to drive?
Our hands went up.
The last classroom session, same question.
We had our tails between our legs.
When it came down to it, none of us really understood the physical dynamics of the car. Almost 10 years later I'm still amazed when an instructor can point out a some small change in my driving that makes a world of difference. As simple as brake a bit earlier and get on the gas sooner.

I was one a 2 year plateau with no improvement in sight. A Tarheel instructor was able to push me over that plateau. I was faster and I felt more comfortable by the end of the weekend.

VIR in 2 more weeks for me. :)

78 Rocco
09-03-2007, 01:54 PM
It has been an honor and a pleasure to help TrackDaze develop their program and I promise you, these guys are serious about safety and about putting together an even better program in the future. All constructive criticism is greatly appreciated - TrackDaze is listening!

Jon

Thanks Jon, could not have said it any better myself. We are serious and building a better program with each successive event. Just like driving, no matter how many of these you do (organize and run), you always have something to learn and improve on.

And thanks to anyone and everyone who has feedback, we truly welcome it. Feel free to drop me and/or Jon an e-mail about anything likes, dislikes, ideas, etc.

Eric

Car54
09-07-2007, 07:23 AM
Pics are up:

http://www.fandsenterprises.com/vircar.htm

ChosenGSR
09-07-2007, 10:08 AM
I figured I'd chime in on the subject since I've done a TrackDaze (Formerly R32 I believe) earlier this year and obviously I've done numerous BMW CCA events as well as some MB/Audi events. Off the top of my head I have something like 14 track days in total. It's really interesting to see the different approaches to running events. I think people need to keep an open mind and consider different points of view on all of these topics.

For example, when I ran VIR at Marque Madness (Woody was instructing me) I was placed in C group even though I've done VIR on multiple occasions before. I really don't want to sound arrogant or whatnot, but I felt like I was completely out of place, even Woody himself suggested that I shouldn't be in that group. The problem is that there is hardly ever any flexibility to changing the grouping of the student during the event. I can see the conservative approach in placing students in groups, but there should be a way to bump groups without having to wait until the "next" driving school to maximize student experience. I learned a great amount that weekend, Woody is extremely demanding and quite the perfectionist. My only "beef" was the fact that I issued one (maybe two I can't remember) point bys all weekend and that was during the time when it started to drizzle, I am always on the cautious side. That might not seem like an issue to some, but I feel that it takes away from my learning experience. I notice that in these type of situations I forget to use the rear view mirror, and the lack of overall "pressure" of having someone on your tail takes away from the overall learning experience quite a bit.

My experience with (at the time) R32 group was also very interesting. It was my first time to the Shenandoah circuit, I was put in the blue group. Saturday morning myself (and some others) quickly realized that blue was actually solo. I believe the paperwork actually said at the time that instructors will be riding with intermediate for the first few sessions at the very least. Being that it was my first time ever at that track I quickly grabbed an advanced student to ride with me for two sessions. By the end of the day I was up to speed with the rest of the crowd. I really wished I would have had an instructor at least available to me for the first day. I was there to learn, and even though due to my overall "experience" I was able to get up to speed quickly I wished I could have tapped the experience of an instructor for the whole event.

Fast forward to the MB event at Shenandoah just last month. I was determined to get back to Shenandoah to get a little more experience before year end. MB conservatively placed me in their C group equivalent, due to my "only" 2 prior days of experience. By the end of the day my instructor (one of the veterans with MB club) has bumped me up to their intermediate group and solo'd me. I told him I didn't really care about running solo, but I loved the fact that he was able to adjust to my experience and performance quickly in a way where I got to enjoy myself the next day to the "fullest" potential. I also loved how MB combined intermediate and advanced (instructor) (due to time constraints) the last session of Sunday, I loved running with instructors.

Anyway, 3 different clubs, 3 different ways of handling students and experience. I think each club has it's highs and lows. It's been my experience that BMW CCA is extremely conservative, sometimes more than I (personally) would have liked. I understand that safety is a big factor, it's tough to juggle all of these things at the same time and please everyone. I personally don't limit myself to any one club, even though I am a diehard BMW fan. I enjoy doing events with all the clubs, they all have great things to offer.

78 Rocco
09-07-2007, 04:30 PM
My experience with (at the time) R32 group was also very interesting. It was my first time to the Shenandoah circuit, I was put in the blue group. Saturday morning myself (and some others) quickly realized that blue was actually solo. I believe the paperwork actually said at the time that instructors will be riding with intermediate for the first few sessions at the very least. Being that it was my first time ever at that track I quickly grabbed an advanced student to ride with me for two sessions. By the end of the day I was up to speed with the rest of the crowd. I really wished I would have had an instructor at least available to me for the first day. I was there to learn, and even though due to my overall "experience" I was able to get up to speed quickly I wished I could have tapped the experience of an instructor for the whole event.


Anyway, 3 different clubs, 3 different ways of handling students and experience. I think each club has it's highs and lows. It's been my experience that BMW CCA is extremely conservative, sometimes more than I (personally) would have liked. I understand that safety is a big factor, it's tough to juggle all of these things at the same time and please everyone. I personally don't limit myself to any one club, even though I am a diehard BMW fan. I enjoy doing events with all the clubs, they all have great things to offer.

Thanks for the feedback... We are looking at tweeking and clarifying our "Intermediate-Blue" group a bit. It has always been a "solo" group, basically our intent was to have HPDE 2.5.. for those who are ready to solo, but not pass in corners or do not want the pressure and action of passing in corners (with a point of course). At both Summit and VIR, we attempted to honor requests for those Intermediates that wanted an instructor for the 1st session or two, but this proved extremely difficult for several reasons from logistics and timing to instructors themselves, etc, etc..

So anyway, no excuses but just to let you know we are listening, recognize the issues and working to improve constantly... And yes, clarifying and dealing with the "solo" nature of our Intermediate-Blue Group is one of the improvements.

Thanks again, Eric

fpol
09-10-2007, 07:31 PM
I *prefer* having at least some instruction available since I've never failed to learn something, BUT I've also experienced, some of the "i can sign you off now, there's nothing else to teach you" types and really, I can do without that since, that just isn't true in my case.

From my fairly limited perspective, just 29 days, i think that while folks might be ready to go solo at (what is it 14 days for intermediate?) I'm not sure that most are at a point where they *should* go solo for an entire 2 days at that point. It's great for the ego of the guy who wants to say they solo'd, but I'd bet a driver of similar experience who spent at least some sessions with a (dedicated) instructor ends up that much ahead of the game. That's why NCC rules - not for track time, just flat out great dedicated instruction, skidpad, and classroom.

I wanted to go solo a while back just from hearing others going solo. Having driven about 4 complete days solo, I could care less - except for the odd session just to get a good picture one up.

I've got too much to learn...

...but now no car to learn in :(.

1996 328ti
09-10-2007, 07:53 PM
I *prefer* having at least some instruction available since I've never failed to learn something, BUT I've also experienced, some of the "i can sign you off now, there's nothing else to teach you" types and really, I can do without that since, that just isn't true in my case.I've had club racers tell me there was nothing more to teach me and quit frankly, if someone was just going to be a passenger, I'd rather be solo to experiment on my own.

It's kinda a scary when you are in A or B group and find the solo driver in front of you driving their rear view mirrors. Clearly they were not ready to be signed off in that group.

woodym3
09-10-2007, 10:10 PM
For example, when I ran VIR at Marque Madness (Woody was instructing me) I was placed in C group even though I've done VIR on multiple occasions before. I really don't want to sound arrogant or whatnot, but I felt like I was completely out of place, even Woody himself suggested that I shouldn't be in that group. The problem is that there is hardly ever any flexibility to changing the grouping of the student during the event.

Often it's just a logistical problem Alex. For instance, if an instructor wants to move his C student up to B, because of scheduling problems he might not be able to instruct in B group. This means there has to be an extra instructor available in the B group.

Another point, it was a long time ago, but I remember when I was a novice and intermediate student how I couldn't wait to be signed off for solo. I really felt I knew what I was doing and didn't like having someone else tell me to do something different. How little I knew. Now I love getting another instructor to ride along and offer suggestions.

These days I am pleasantly surprised (well, not always pleasantly) when I suggest to an advanced student that they should go solo for the next session and they say they want me to stay with them.

Real M3
09-11-2007, 08:11 AM
<snippage> Another point, it was a long time ago, but I remember when I was a novice and intermediate student how I couldn't wait to be signed off for solo. I really felt I knew what I was doing and didn't like having someone else tell me to do something different. <Snippage>

Yea Woody,but you know Model T's didn't reach the speeds of the average BMW of today! (Ducking)

woodym3
09-11-2007, 09:09 AM
Look who's calling the kettle black. But I do remember the days when a 2002 with dual Webers was the fastest thing on the track.

Real M3
09-11-2007, 09:21 AM
Look who's calling the kettle black. But I do remember the days when a 2002 with dual Webers was the fastest thing on the track.


Yea, yea, we Geeze's have to stick together! And, yes I agree about the 2002 with dual side draft webbers, had one of those as well! Kinda of sad when you realize that those cars are older than a lot of the guys on this board now!:frown:

Need to go take my Geritol mixed with Red Bull!

orijinal_poser
09-11-2007, 09:36 AM
<snippage> Another point, it was a long time ago, but I remember when I was a novice and intermediate student how I couldn't wait to be signed off for solo. I really felt I knew what I was doing and didn't like having someone else tell me to do something different. <Snippage>

Yea Woody,but you know Model T's didn't reach the speeds of the average BMW of today! (Ducking)
LOL!