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ChosenGSR
06-22-2006, 11:43 AM
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1996 328ti
06-22-2006, 11:50 AM
There is a company called America Collectors which offer DE insurance in MD.
http://www.americancollectorsins.com/index.php
Look under programs.

ChosenGSR
06-22-2006, 11:59 AM
Steve, I saw that when I was doing research on bimmerforums. Big problem is that I don't meet 2 of the 4 requirements.

Stored in a locked garage or trailer when not in use (this is unclear)

Not driven by anyone with less than 10 years driving experience during a Driver’s Ed event (I am 24, so I guess I only have 8 years behind my belt)

1996 328ti
06-22-2006, 12:02 PM
Sorry then. I know of no one else.
I have not heard of anyone denying a claim for at least the first time putting in a claim. Not in Maryland anyway.

bren
06-22-2006, 01:11 PM
IMO, if you can't afford to write it off then you shouldn't be tracking it. I wouldn't trust any Ins. company to cover it.

mpassioned
06-22-2006, 01:51 PM
I have an '02 M3, and accept the consequences of doing something bad to the car. This all falls under the managed risk category IMO, same as when I raced M/C's. I personally would not make a claim, as I don't think they'd cover it anyway. I'd expect to pay for it out of pocket, should it come to that.
As was mentioned earlier, there are companies that write policies for track events, and I believe you can buy by the day. Go over to the M3 forum on Roadfly, and do a search, I believe I saw something there last year about this.

ChosenGSR
06-22-2006, 02:27 PM
I have an '02 M3, and accept the consequences of doing something bad to the car. This all falls under the managed risk category IMO, same as when I raced M/C's. I personally would not make a claim, as I don't think they'd cover it anyway. I'd expect to pay for it out of pocket, should it come to that.
As was mentioned earlier, there are companies that write policies for track events, and I believe you can buy by the day. Go over to the M3 forum on Roadfly, and do a search, I believe I saw something there last year about this.

This is what most people do from what I understand, they just call it managed risk :) My car is pretty new (2004) and god forbid totaling it is definitely more than I can afford. I don't know whether I should just downgrade vehicles to something that's a little cheaper and less worrisome or really think about adding a track car to the fleet. The problem is I have a hard time justifying another vehicle/insurance to be used 4 days out of the year. I'll definitely take a look at roadfly and see what I can find there.

AlfaEric
06-22-2006, 02:31 PM
This is what most people do from what I understand, they just call it managed risk :) My car is pretty new (2004) and god forbid totaling it is definitely more than I can afford. I don't know whether I should just downgrade vehicles to something that's a little cheaper and less worrisome or really think about adding a track car to the fleet. The problem is I have a hard time justifying another vehicle/insurance to be used 4 days out of the year. I'll definitely take a look at roadfly and see what I can find there.
Remember that you can probably register it as a weekend vehicle (they just limit the miles). It can help a bit with the insurance costs.

---Eric

ChosenGSR
06-22-2006, 02:33 PM
Remember that you can probably register it as a weekend vehicle (they just limit the miles). It can help a bit with the insurance costs.

---Eric
Good point as well Eric.

AlfaEric
06-22-2006, 02:36 PM
Good point as well Eric.
...and if you buy a bunch of them you might qualify for a fleet discount.

---Eric

OwnedbyDuncan
06-22-2006, 06:40 PM
At some DE after an incident on the track they have been known to haul the car off track and dump it in a field off the road leading to the track.

Now I have never seen this personally happen.

Have you read your policy from State Farm? Often times it depends on how you define a DE.

Begs the question as to why auto insurance is required at a DE if the insurer isn't going to pay a claim?

I know back a few years ago State Farm was covering DE's

Dave Apker

ChosenGSR
06-22-2006, 07:45 PM
Dave, I was clear in explaining the definition of a DE to my agent, the answer was still no. I have read the policy, and it's extremely gray, which is why I went ahead and contacted the agent.

I really love tracking my car, but as they say we're trying to drive at the limit, and it's only a matter of time until... Never mind somebody spilling oil in front of you.

1996 328ti
06-22-2006, 07:59 PM
I really love tracking my car, but as they say we're trying to drive at the limit, and it's only a matter of time until... Never mind somebody spilling oil in front of you.That is my only fear, debris on the track.

I have found insurance policies are written in plain English.
If it doesn't specifically have an exclusion, then you are covered.
I understand your situation. Read through your policy again.

Biggins
06-22-2006, 11:00 PM
Do you have to own a BMW as your track car?

I've been toying with ideas of getting something cheap for track use until I can afford tracking a BMW or other sports car... 90s Mazda Protege, Honda Civic/Accord/Prelude, Toyota Celica, etc. Wheels, brakes, shocks/springs, etc. would all be cheaper.

white_2kgt
06-23-2006, 07:41 AM
Have you read your policy from State Farm? Often times it depends on how you define a DE.

Begs the question as to why auto insurance is required at a DE if the insurer isn't going to pay a claim?

I know back a few years ago State Farm was covering DE's

Exactly, read the policy. If you have an 'old' SF policy then you are covered. The newer ones specifically say if you are at a 'facility used for racing' then you are not covered, even if it is a DE. The old policy only said if you were in a 'competition/timed' style event then you were not covered. That was the change SF made. I still have the 'old' policy (confired by my agent). Also, your claim getting processed will depend on the agent and how they write it up. In other words, become friends with your agent ;).

Now, it has been my experience that MOST DE incidents are minor, you loose the rear and slide off the track into the guard rail, resulting in a few 1,000's in damage (yes, even to fix a BMW), one would hope that if you have a newish BMW and are tracking it then you could afford to absorb the cost, if not, get something else to track. I have also see 3 'MAJOR' incidents where the cars were probably total write-off's, this is over a 4 year span.

Slpnbyu
06-23-2006, 07:52 AM
Exactly, read the policy. If you have an 'old' SF policy then you are covered.

Define "old" please.

bren
06-23-2006, 08:44 AM
Define "old" please.
It's only "old" until they send you the renewal paperwork with the updated language in the contract.

1996 328ti
06-23-2006, 12:18 PM
Nationwide regularly sends me addendums to my policy.
Usually it is involved in reduced coverage for the same price.
Last time I read it it actually said nothing about race tracks or competitive events.

But better to research this now than before it's too late.

Rafgar
06-23-2006, 03:48 PM
This is a very tricky (and touchy) subject.

Yes, whether or not you're covered will be controlled by the language of the policy. It's a contract and will be strictly contrued. Asking the agent (and the underwriter) is only worth something if the question and the answer are in writing. If you only got a verbal response then it's only worth the same weight as the advise you're getting here - read that as worthless.

OK, now that I've said that everything you read here is worthless ;) time for my 2 cents.

Remember that I am not your lawyer and that you should seek the advise of a lawyer in your particular jurisdiction.

Over the years, we've seen that most insurance companies will pay for one track mishap. However, most insurance companies are changing their policies to limit their exposure for "track events". Also, many times the insured's claim is denied initially and it requires the intervention of a lawyer to get the insurance company to actually pay. One of the primary factors in ultimately getting coverage is tell the truth about what happened. Don't even consider the "I hit a deer in rural West VA" line (unless the deer crossed the track in front of you - has happened several times at Summit Point).

The best advise I can give you is to remember that you drove the car to the track and that you need to drive it home when you're done. This has the tendency to slow you down a bit, but you remain careful and alert. Basically, don't drive at 10/10th or even at 9/10th. Leave yourself some room to recover from something that happens while you're driving.

You're at a stage where you want to go faster. Please resist the temptation to switch to "R" compound tires. Stay on the street tires for a little longer. This has a benefit of keeping the speeds a bit lower and giving you more time to react to situations on the track. If you want to upgrade, work on the driver first then the brakes.

Most people who have been doing these events for any period of time will tell you that it's not a matter of "if" something will happen, but "when" something will happen. Again, simply leaving yourself some recovery room and remembering that you need to drive home helps a lot.

I have found that most "incidents" occur due to driver error which is compounded by additional driver error. The first error is losing control - the second error is thinking that you can recover. Chances are, that once you've lost control of the car, you should simply drive the car off the track. Don't make the mistake of trying to stay on the track. If you drive the car off, you have some control over your destiny. If you *try* to recover, you will likely lose what little control you had and simply become a passenger. Most instructors will guide you through the "recovery" process (the old saying of "in a spin, both feet in" or "drive off straight"). Listen to the instructor and look where you want to go. If you look at the armco, car, tree, etc. - then that's what you'll hit. If you look at the opening between the trees, cars, etc. then you simply need to clean your shorts when you drive back into the pits.

steve b
06-26-2006, 09:41 AM
This is why my track car is a 13 year old mr2. It's a pretty good feeling knowing that worst case, I'm out 5 grand.

I've always wondered about people who could take a new M3 out on the track. I figured they were either a lot better driver than me or made a WHOLE lot more money than me. Being able to afford it is one thing, being able to pay for it and not feel any regret is another.

David Hicks
06-26-2006, 02:58 PM
For my money, it's worthwhile to have a car I can afford to walk away from in the event of a track mishap. My e30 is worth more in parts than as a car, and insurance runs me about $10 a month as a second car. If you have a place to park it, and the inclination to maintain it, a cheap DE car is a good way to go.

1996 328ti
06-26-2006, 04:09 PM
My e30 is worth more in parts than as a car, and insurance runs me about $10 a month as a second car.
I need your insurance company.
2 drivers
2003 MINI Cooper S $94.31/month
1996 318ti $77.90/month
1991 325iC $75.15/month

SMOODY
06-27-2006, 07:00 AM
I need your insurance company.
2 drivers
2003 MINI Cooper S $94.31/month
1996 318ti $77.90/month
1991 325iC $75.15/month
Ouch!

We only run about ~$140 a month for all three cars listed in my sig.

FT
06-27-2006, 08:59 AM
This is a little interesting, especially about State Farm:
http://www.caymanclub.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4245&FORUM_ID=1&CAT_ID=1&Topic_Title=Track+insurance%3F&Forum_Title=Cayman+Chat

white_2kgt
06-27-2006, 10:07 AM
Define "old" please.


It's only "old" until they send you the renewal paperwork with the updated language in the contract.

Exactly. I have different policy numbers for my vehicles. I received the adendum for my truck's policy but not the mustang, this was on purpose and my agent helped with this.


This is a little interesting, especially about State Farm:
http://www.caymanclub.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4245&FORUM_ID=1&CAT_ID=1&Topic_Title=Track+insurance%3F&Forum_Title=Cayman+Chat

STLPCA has the old policy as well, I hope they haven't updated his.

OwnedbyDuncan
06-27-2006, 11:46 AM
Your insurance rates in Maryland are typically higher than in VA. Back a few years ago a friend of mine was considering buying a new townhouse in Waldorf, MD or a used one in Little Rocky Run in Centerville, VA. The house in MD was new and $15K cheaper. Now she she worked in Fairlakes. Dont ask. Anyway I told her before she made a decision call and ask her insurance agent about car insurance. At the time she was living near Landmark mall. If she had moved to Waldorf her insurance would have almost doubled on her Mazda 929. Going from a about $1k to $2k. Her insurance actually dropped 10 bucks a month by moving out to Centerville.

Dave Apker and the collies who will need flippers, a snorkel and a mask at their herding trial this weekend.

Russell Thater
09-28-2006, 02:44 PM
I am an insurance agent with Liberty Mutual over in the MD area. I recently worked with a client who was inquiring about the same thing your all speaking about. " Will you insure my vehicle while on the track? " The answer is no. I spoke with my underwriting department as well as colleagues who work for State Farm and Allstate. All have riders which would exclude any damage during a track event. Be it a race or even for "educational purposes." There are other companies who take this type of risk however it can be quite expensive. Sorry I couldn't give you better news.