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AlexB
08-31-2005, 05:35 PM
Is there a roster or a way I know I am registered for this event?

-Alex B

1996 328ti
08-31-2005, 05:50 PM
Is there a roster or a way I know I am registered for this event?Generally no. Once registration is closed they will determine how many students to accept. Generally we accept ~45 for the Jefferson.

NoSoup4U
09-01-2005, 09:22 AM
Will we find out AT LEAST 2.5 weeks in advance of this event? There is no refund two weeks in advance --

AlfaEric
09-01-2005, 09:25 AM
Will we find out AT LEAST 2.5 weeks in advance of this event? There is no refund two weeks in advance --
If you didn't get in then you don't have to worry about cancelling for a refund. :wink:

---Eric

NoSoup4U
09-01-2005, 09:53 AM
That's b.s.

Barry
09-01-2005, 10:48 AM
That's b.s.


There are others that use Summit Point to host HPDE's.
Look into the FATT program. You can find info about it at:
www.bsr-inc.com

Barry

1996 328ti
09-01-2005, 01:29 PM
Judging by the schools this year, with the exception of the Shenandoah, I would expect anyone who registered the first week will be accepted. The chief instructor decides how many students to accept based on the number of instructors signed up. Nothing is done until the registration period is closed.

In the past we required people to use the tech form from their registration packet. We have done away with that so people could get their car teched at an earlier convienence. We have eliminated mailing registration packets reducing the labor involved to print, fold, stuff envelopes and mail. Not to mention the cost savings.

If someone wants to cancel their application before the registration period is over there is no problem. Cancelling afterwards causes more work since assignments and run groups need to be changed.

If anyone has a suggestion, send them to Roy or attend the driving school steering committee meeting. I believe the next one is in a few weeks. The date is in the dB.

NoSoup4U
09-06-2005, 09:40 AM
Is there anyway that we could implement a policy where "upon receipt" an email is sent out indicating what number you are?

I.e., if you are the 1st person received, you receive an email telling you are first ... if you are the 49 applicant received -- you are told you are number 49.

This way, if we know that 45 people will be included -- we automatically know that after 45 -- you are on the waitlist and you also know your position in line. This should help people coordinate their schedules.

In addition, it should be easy to implement using MS Excel -- or some other variant. Upon receipt -- you are sent an email notifying you what number applicant you are.

Would this be too burdensome?

1996 328ti
09-06-2005, 12:11 PM
Yes, Rafael and I discussed this.
We are developing an online preregistration system for next year which will make this easier. The system wil require a valid email address.
If for instance if the Chief Instructor says we can accept 20 students before registration is closed, those 20 can be notified. Or we can post first name and last initial on the website. Registrations 21 and up are waitlisted. As we add to the accepted list we can update the list.

Rafgar
09-07-2005, 10:43 PM
As Steven mentioned, we are working on ways to improve the registration system and to improve communication with the members.

Unfortunately, it's not as simple as assigning a number and anything below the "max registration" is considered as "in". The problem is instructor and student assignments. The chief instructor has to make sure that we have sufficient instructors for each event (not as easy as it sounds) and then he has to match the available instructors with students. This is why we will likely be "phasing in" the acceptances. Meaning, that for an event that has a capacity of 45 students, we may only be able to confirm the first 25 or 30 immediately and then wait a (hopefully) short period of time to notify the rest that they have been accepted.

I think we need to look at the entire registration process and consider improvements all along the process. We do many things correctly and efficiently. While we also have areas in which we need to improve.

Comments and suggestions are certainly welcome and helpful - so, please, keep them coming.

Thanks,

1996 328ti
09-07-2005, 11:07 PM
And as Doug pointed out to me in an email, we also hold spots for instructor academy students. So the numbering system will need to be tweaked. For argument sake the first student to register may be number 10 because we hold spots for IA students. I just chose 10 because I don't recall how many slots are reserved. But for every IA student that becomes an instructor, it means 2 more students can be accepted. Once we have a large enough pool of instructors it will be easier to know how many students to accept earlier. It's a slow process. But we are in much better shape than we were 4 years ago.

SharkD
09-09-2005, 11:08 AM
Quick question: I realized today that I probably forgot to include a copy of my DL & insurance card this time around -- could that possibly prevent me from getting in?

Also, when will the people who did get in receive notification emails for the 10/8-10/9 school?

1996 328ti
09-09-2005, 12:30 PM
Quick question: I realized today that I probably forgot to include a copy of my DL & insurance card this time around -- could that possibly prevent me from getting in?Not this year but next year it will. We are going to be clear that you are not considered registered unless you enclosed a check, a copy of your proof of insurance and driver's license. This just saves time at the morning of the event.


Also, when will the people who did get in receive notification emails for the 10/8-10/9 school?Doug was working on that a couple days ago. I would expect that to happen very shortly. We will improve this next year. Promise.

OwnedbyDuncan
09-09-2005, 02:50 PM
Since your DL can be suspended or revoked and your auto insurance can lapse or be cancelled I suggest maintaining checks the morning of the event. Just present both at the time of check in.

Dave Apker

1996 328ti
09-09-2005, 06:09 PM
Since your DL can be suspended or revoked and your auto insurance can lapse or be cancelled I suggest maintaining checks the morning of the event. Just present both at the time of check in.Granted. If time allowed that might be doable but the registrar is there all alone. People need to get their paperwork and get ready for the day. Perhaps if there were at least two people we could do that.

Dirichlet
09-14-2005, 03:21 PM
Got my email confirmation today (WOOT!!!) - I like that better than the huge packet of paper... see you folks on the track :-D

AlfaEric
09-15-2005, 11:22 AM
Got my email confirmation today (WOOT!!!) - I like that better than the huge packet of paper... see you folks on the track :-D
I still haven't heard anything. :frown:

---Eric

1996 328ti
09-15-2005, 12:01 PM
Doug normally will also send who is on the wait list. Email him.

AlfaEric
09-15-2005, 12:04 PM
Doug normally will also send who is on the wait list. Email him.
I'll send an email this weekend if I still haven't heard anything. I don't want to rush him. I know sending email registrations can be a pain and would probably do it in batches.

---Eric

AlfaEric
09-21-2005, 10:47 PM
Doug normally will also send who is on the wait list. Email him.
I'm waitlisted. :frown:

---Eric

NoSoup4U
09-27-2005, 10:19 AM
I'm waitlisted. :frown:

---Eric

At least he had the common courtesy to respond to your email :rolleyes:

1996 328ti
09-27-2005, 12:04 PM
I'm waitlisted. :frown:

---EricI believe someone recently cancelled so you should be getting an email that you are now registered.

AlfaEric
09-27-2005, 12:24 PM
I believe someone recently cancelled so you should be getting an email that you are now registered.
Thanks! I'll keep an eye on my inbox. :)

---Eric

1996 328ti
09-27-2005, 10:12 PM
There will be 3 grills for instructors and students to use Saturday and Sunday.

AlfaEric
09-28-2005, 08:15 AM
There will be 3 grills for instructors and students to use Saturday and Sunday.
Mmmm... BBQ. :icon_drib

I'll be there (I just got off the waitlist). :icon_danc

---Eric

Dirichlet
10-05-2005, 02:20 PM
In light of certain gas price issues, I want to offer a ride to Summit Point to any corner workers within the greater Baltimore area. Contact me if you're interested

M-technik-3
10-05-2005, 02:58 PM
In light of certain gas price issues, I want to offer a ride to Summit Point to any corner workers within the greater Baltimore area. Contact me if you're interested

Buy this man a bier. :biggrin: After the event that is.

Dirichlet
10-07-2005, 08:09 AM
This is some bulls**t right here
http://www.erh.noaa.gov/ifps/MapClick.php?CityName=Summit+Point&state=WV&site=LWX

AlfaEric
10-07-2005, 08:27 AM
This is some bulls**t right here
http://www.erh.noaa.gov/ifps/MapClick.php?CityName=Summit+Point&state=WV&site=LWX
I hate driving in the rain. :icon_sadb

---Eric

Dirichlet
10-07-2005, 09:49 AM
welp... at least the skidpad won't dry out...:-/

ob325
10-07-2005, 10:42 AM
And I was discouraged more this morning when the news reported that areas west of I-95 and specifically in the mountains would be in the bullseye zone for 3-5 inches of rain. :icon_cry:

Nick325xiT 5spd
10-07-2005, 10:42 AM
I believe Bren has a set of Hoosier Rain Tires that he'd like to get rid of. Buy these and amaze other students and your instructor. Just imagine the look on that M3 driver's face as you get full traction and out drag him down the straight. ;)

SharkD
10-07-2005, 11:24 AM
Watching Saturday's forecast develop over the last few days has been amazing:
Tues: 60% chance of light rain
Wed: Partly cloudy, 30% chance of rain
Thurs: 80% chance of rain
Fri: 100% chance of heavy rain, 1-2in.

Just remember to pack your Evinrude outboard (or a paddle) and you'll be fine. ;)

http://www.evinrude.com/NR/rdonlyres/B63663AD-64F5-4622-801F-4BAEECDB3D4D/0/LrgProductImage_v6225HO.jpg

SharkD
10-07-2005, 01:45 PM
While you're paddling, just don't forget to keep your eyes open for slower traffic:
http://russmarshall.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=11618
(If you're really nervous about this weekend, don't watch this 42MB video from the May 25 Grand-Am race at Mont Tremblant.)

Barry
10-07-2005, 02:19 PM
This is some bulls**t right here
http://www.erh.noaa.gov/ifps/MapClick.php?CityName=Summit+Point&state=WV&site=LWX

Rain makes you drive smooth and you can develop your car control skills.
But, having said that, HPDE's in the dry are much more fun.
Barry

ob325
10-07-2005, 02:46 PM
I was driving home from work this afternoon and it was raining so hard you couldn't see crap going 20mph. On the bright side, everyone was slowing down so no one was trying to be Speed Racer.

Hmmm....heavy rain, 4:30am alarm clock, how hard will it be to not roll over and go back to sleep?

AlfaEric
10-07-2005, 02:50 PM
I was driving home from work this afternoon and it was raining so hard you couldn't see crap going 20mph. On the bright side, everyone was slowing down so no one was trying to be Speed Racer.

Hmmm....heavy rain, 4:30am alarm clock, how hard will it be to not roll over and go back to sleep?
I'm just hoping my power doesn't go out (again). :redface:

---Eric

AlfaEric
10-07-2005, 03:29 PM
:tongue:

---Eric

Dirichlet
10-07-2005, 04:02 PM
weather.com is now calling for up to two (yes, 2) inches of rain tomorrow... To hell with a Hans - I'm bringing a lifejacket

SharkD
10-07-2005, 06:46 PM
Unfortunately, I think my HANS will interfere with a Mae West. I'll just be sure to remember to bring a snorkel. ;)

Dirichlet
10-07-2005, 10:43 PM
gaddam - looking outside right now, you'll need a BCD, octopus, tank, and wetsuit... wow...

this should be interesting

AlfaEric
10-08-2005, 04:25 AM
Ugh... This is way too early for me. :(

---Eric

SharkD
10-08-2005, 06:02 PM
I, for one, truly appreciate the fact that the most dangerous, hair-raising moment of the day was when I was nearly killed by an oblivious minivan on the Dulles Greenway on my trip home.

According to the weather channel, it's actually supposed to stop raining... at 6am, so we might actually get a dry lap or two.

AlfaEric
10-08-2005, 07:37 PM
I, for one, truly appreciate the fact that the most dangerous, hair-raising moment of the day was when I was nearly killed by an oblivious minivan on the Dulles Greenway on my trip home.

According to the weather channel, it's actually supposed to stop raining... at 6am, so we might actually get a dry lap or two.
I think my most dangerous, hair-raising moment of the day was also the ride home.... Pete drove j/k :tongue:

---Eric

Barry
10-09-2005, 05:20 PM
By any measure, the school was a great success.
Many students acquired a new appreciation for smoothness and car control on Saturday and, on Sunday, everyone just had fun!
Barry

Dirichlet
10-09-2005, 06:02 PM
I would like to thank everyone @<hidden> NCC for putting on yet another excellent school. Saturday was an incredible learning experience - but it was fun at the same time. Today was incredibly fun and I also learned a bit. My only regret is that there are no more schools this year :(
Thank you again
~Colin

1996 328ti
10-09-2005, 06:29 PM
My only regret is that there are no more schools this year :(
Thank you again
~Colin4 weekends a year are enough.:)
Having rain on Saturday is always better than rain on Sunday which is also better than having rain for to days. It's no fun standing out in the rain for 8 hours. Glad there that were no incidents two report.

OwnedbyDuncan
10-09-2005, 08:13 PM
A previous chief instructor loved rain at least for the instructors track sessions. Dave got on my case one time for not getting him out quick enough on the wet rrack after a brief shower.

Dave Bryan always said you learn ten times as much on a wet track than you do a dry one. Always preferred a wet track both days as a student.


Dave Apker

OwnedbyDuncan
10-09-2005, 08:18 PM
BTW I find accuweather.com pretty accurate within about 24 hours. Their hourly forecast by zip code is pretty close especially for Berryville/Summit Point. Need to know what gear to bring to sheep herding trials. Nothing better than driving home from Berryville to Clifton with a wet collie whose coat is covered with mud and smells of Eau Du Sheep Poop! Also like NOAA weather radio. Doug, Bob et al on Local TV just dont cut it. They should be replaced with weather bimbos in short skirts!

Pinecone
10-10-2005, 07:48 AM
I came over and watched some and BSd with some people. What I was wondering was why, on Saturday in th rain, were people driving the dry line? At least over onteh main circuit the dry line was slicker than SNOT. So the only way to get around quickly was to do anywhere BUT the dry line. Looking for traction.

BTW I LIKE the rain, qualified 7th in a field of 26 (was 5th after the first session). :)

Barry
10-10-2005, 09:12 AM
I came over and watched some and BSd with some people. What I was wondering was why, on Saturday in th rain, were people driving the dry line? At least over onteh main circuit the dry line was slicker than SNOT. So the only way to get around quickly was to do anywhere BUT the dry line. Looking for traction.

BTW I LIKE the rain, qualified 7th in a field of 26 (was 5th after the first session). :)

As a racer, I know the wet line on Summit Point's main cirsuit. For example, in turn 10, the outside lane (no where near the apex) has a lot of grip. So, on Saturday we found that turn 5 on the Jefferson, for example, had a ton of grip. Through experimentation I found the wet line in several turns.
Barry

Pete
10-10-2005, 09:51 AM
I had a blast for the school. Both the rain and dry day where excellent. I think it was a good thing that we had the wet day first which allowed us to learn the feel of the car when it lets go on both understeer and oversteer.

It gave me more confidence for sunday.

I wanted to thank the NCC for puting on a great event. What a blast. Unfortunately, I think I'm hooked. Anyone want to be the next autocross chair? I might have to divert more time for this.

Pete

ob325
10-10-2005, 10:14 AM
Unfortunately, I think I'm hooked. Anyone want to be the next autocross chair? I might have to divert more time for this.

Pete
:icon_lol: Funny how this happens. More time indeed (and more money, but well worth it).

Pete, I'll send you those email addresses this evening when I get home.

Todd

SharkD
10-10-2005, 11:09 AM
I just want to say that I had a blast -- and to thank all of the instructors, (Bill Shook, Bob Hopkins, Gary Ketner, and Bob Briggs and Pete read, especially) Adil, Steven and all the corner workers for such a good school. I had a few epiphanies and learned significantly more car control this weekend than I think I did all of last year. (Okay, maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration, but not by much.)

I'm also glad to see that Eric, Pete and many other first-timers, not only learned a lot and had fun, but are also hooked (it's like crack, I tell ya). And I was glad to see that Todd was able to resist spending two straight days on the couch, watching football. (J/K)

----



I came over and watched some and BSd with some people. What I was wondering was why, on Saturday in th rain, were people driving the dry line? At least over onteh main circuit the dry line was slicker than SNOT. So the only way to get around quickly was to do anywhere BUT the dry line. Looking for traction.

Terry, at least in my run group, we definitely played around and found a wet line -- I don't know if it was the wet line, but it seemed to work. BTW, can you send me the website for the DL1 acquisition system that we were talking about? (Thanks)

--

PS -- Apologies to Pete Read for the omission of your shout-out (it's what I get for posting shortly after coming out of hibernation).

ob325
10-10-2005, 11:29 AM
And I was glad to see that Todd was able to resist spending two straight days on the couch, watching football. (J/K)

Hey, the Hokies weren't on TV on Sunday so there was no need to be on the couch that day. :)

And who knew I'd be able to catch the end of the Astros-Braves game when I got home around 6:30pm? Were you even done packing up by then?

shoe
10-10-2005, 11:54 AM
Just wanted to my thanks as well to NCC staff for another great event! This is only my 3rd school and the learning curve is still quite steep for me. I got more experience with under- and oversteer on Saturday than in all my previous 28 years of driving on the street! I also got to practice some evasive manuvers as well, narrowly avoiding a car that spun right in front of me exiting T7.

Can't wait until the Spring,

--Jim

1996 328ti
10-10-2005, 01:14 PM
Now people may start to understand when they ask me at an autocross, you having fun? NO. 4 runs at 50 seconds each. Then stand around and go home. I'll tell you what fun it. DEs. Driving schools can be very addictive. There are those you see for a few events then never again. But then there are those who you see everywhere. I opted not to go down to VIR with Audi or Synergy. No more money.

You guys have to experience different tracks. Don't think you need to master one track before going somewhere else. Every track is different but you still use the same techniques elsewhere. A little lift out of the carousel on the main track gets you pointing in the right direction just like a little lift entering snake at VIR. The fun is applying what you use one place somewhere else.

And they real fun is when you are driving with a different club and comfortable going off line or using different techniques. You will be amazed to see the different skill levels at various tracks.

Glad everyone had a good time.

We do need a coordinator for next year. Unfortunately you wouldn't be able to drive but you will get credits for future driving schools. Basically you are there to keep the school on schedule among other things. We need someone familiar with driving schools.

OwnedbyDuncan
10-10-2005, 01:52 PM
Only credits for future schools for being drivers school coordinator. Man, you used to get drivers schools for life!

Dave Apker

TMB_540i
10-10-2005, 02:09 PM
What a great way to spend the weekend! Much thanks to the NCC Driver's School Staff and to the rain on Saturday. I have always asked for more skidpad sessions on my evaluation forms and Saturday I was able to get 5 skidpad sessions.

The NCC Driver's Schools are great to meet other people with a similar addiction. Guess it's a little like group therapy, huh?

Anybody planning on attending the Audi event at VIR in November???

AlfaEric
10-10-2005, 02:54 PM
Now people may start to understand when they ask me at an autocross, you having fun? NO. 4 runs at 50 seconds each. Then stand around and go home. I'll tell you what fun it. DEs. Driving schools can be very addictive. There are those you see for a few events then never again. But then there are those who you see everywhere. I opted not to go down to VIR with Audi or Synergy. No more money.

Although I had a great time out there, I still enjoy autocrossing. I can understand why some people complain about the seat-time autocrossing but I think they are missing part of the fun of autocrossing. Notice how many people mention how much they like meeting people with similar automotive addictions or complain about how the costs associated with attending a DE. Autocrossing is much less expensive, more frequent and also has a great group of people out there.

I won't be quitting autocrossing but I will be attending a few more DE's next year. :) I REALLY enjoyed Sunday. Saturday was simply painful for me. I admit I enjoyed the skidpad in the rain. I had a much more difficult time on Sundays as some patches were started to dry. Some people enjoy driving in the rain. I guess I'm just not one of those people.

I know everyone says you learn soo much more in the rain but I REALLY hate driving in the rain. Maybe I would have enjoyed Saturday more had it not been my first event but with the stress from this being my first event, being soaked and the added stress of hating driving in the rain it really took a lot of the fun out of it for me. When I left on Saturday I really wasn't looking forward to Sunday. I didn't think I would be attending any DEs next year but after driving in the dry, my attitude changed. I learned a lot out there and realized how many of the things I struggle with autocrossing were the exact same things I had issues with on the track. The big difference was I had a lot more time to work on them. Now that I have had some seat time I'm just wondering if I'm actually going to remember to apply the things I learned. I guess I'll find out at the next autocross. :wink:

---Eric

1996 328ti
10-10-2005, 06:00 PM
Notice how many people mention how much they like meeting people with similar automotive addictions or complain about how the costs associated with attending a DE. Autocrossing is much less expensive, more frequent and also has a great group of people out there.Ever since split heats there doesn't seem to be the large number of people hanging out all day.:mad:

Dirichlet
10-10-2005, 06:01 PM
Just a few pics from the paddock Sunday AM
http://community.webshots.com/album/473594950musRbb
n-joy

AlfaEric
10-10-2005, 06:31 PM
Ever since split heats there doesn't seem to be the large number of people hanging out all day.:mad:
But the people that are there seem to be happier that they don't have to stay all day. :) I don't blame people for not staying all day especially during the summer heat. The spring events had a lot of people staying all day and I think many people will stay for the next events - depending on how far they have to drive and the weather.

---Eric

Jenson Button
10-10-2005, 06:42 PM
First I get a personal thank you from SharkD, and then I notice a picture of Vader posted by Diriclet. Maybe I need to check out these forums more often!

I would like to state that this was one of the most outstanding schools I have ever attended. I have driven the Jeff many times in the rain, but I don't ever remember it being this slick. Even staying off the dry line, it was like an ice rally school in my car. Never have so many drivers exhibited such large yaw angles. I have never seen anything even close. An urban legend was even born about peanut oil...

The BBQ Saturday night was also great. Too bad too few stuck around for the fun. The bench racing was fast and furious.

Sunday was a nice cherry on top of a great season. Everyone seemed to be driving their best after practicing on the 1.7 mile skidpad on Saturday. I hope those who were worrying about rain in this thread before the school will now save up for a head dress and start preparing for schools by joining me in a rain dance.

See everyone at the holiday party!

Barry
10-10-2005, 09:00 PM
An urban legend was even born about peanut oil...


It's no urban legend.
Three years ago I was instructing at the NASA Hype-R Fest. I was one of the Drifting School Instructors and we were on the Jefferson. Someone came up with the bright idea to coat the first four turns of the track with peanut oil to help the students get oversteer. It worked well for the school, but the events that came after suffered. Now, three years later, we're doing the drifting school on a dry track.

The sun has baked away most of the peanut oil, but the trees shade a lot of turn one. In the rain, turn one becomes treacherous as the residual peanut oil rises to the surface.

If you talk to the full-time BSR instructors they'll tell you that, in the BSR Crown Vics, they've figured out what the maximum speed is you can do in the rain, in turn one. One mile per hour more than that and you'll lose it.

It's no urban legend.
Barry

OwnedbyDuncan
10-10-2005, 09:29 PM
The Jefferson was slick in the wet the first time NCC had a school on the track. We also had a freak November snow storm Saturday night. Go back to my hotel from dinner on track tires on I 81 was fun with the lanes just beginning to become snow covered.

SharkD
10-11-2005, 06:56 AM
Hey, the Hokies weren't on TV on Sunday so there was no need to be on the couch that day. :)

And who knew I'd be able to catch the end of the Astros-Braves game when I got home around 6:30pm? Were you even done packing up by then?

I knew the Hokies weren't ready to play back-to-back games (I have a feeling, however, that the Blue Devil football team could have posted a performance similar to Saturday's, had they played on Sunday), but the NFL was calling... ;)

And, yes, I was finished loading all my tools, the jack, tires and roof-rack by 6:15pm. Home by 8:00. Asleep by 9:30.


Sunday was a nice cherry on top of a great season. Everyone seemed to be driving their best after practicing on the 1.7 mile skidpad on Saturday. I hope those who were worrying about rain in this thread before the school will now save up for a head dress and start preparing for schools by joining me in a rain dance.

Bob, next time, I'll glue a few feathers to my HANS and join you in a rain dance...

M-technik-3
10-11-2005, 02:51 PM
SNOW, yipes it's too early for that.

Bimmer3
10-12-2005, 08:45 AM
Saturday was the most fun I have ever had on a race track. :biggrin: Even more fun than the drifting competition at HypeRfest in 2003, BEFORE I hit the tirewall in the infield. :mad:
As far as the peanut oil resurfacing, I can't imagine why it has not been washed away by now. The entire track was slick, turn 1 was no worse than turn 4, 5, or 7. Surely by now, with all the rain and numerous events held on the track, it's gone, and the track is just slippery when wet.
Too bad we cannot schedule rain events like Saturday, the students and instructors learned far more in the wet than they would have in the dry.
It also showed the difference that tire condition and compound can play in handling on a wet track. Those on well treaded R tires were passing everyone. Worn R's were getting around pretty quickly, though sliding a lot, and those on treaded or worn street tires, were also struggling for traction. My student was on full tread all-seasons, in an underpowered car, using 3rd gear, and he had no forward bite. The rubber must be soft to stick in the rain.

Sorry I missed Sunday.

SharkD
10-13-2005, 07:07 PM
I also wanted to thank Glenn Speakman for the loan of some spare lug bolts -- Murphy's law kicked in on Saturday morning... all week I kept thinking that I needed to get out to RRT and grab some spare studs & lug nuts, but never did.