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1996 328ti
07-15-2005, 09:43 PM
Written by Pete Read.

There are two paths to becoming an NCC instructor:

1. Attend our schools as a student to qualify for the Instructor Academy
(IA) training program. The IA helps polish skills which are then scored
during normal drivers' school days. When the required scores are met
and the Chief Instructor is satisfied, the candidate becomes a NCC
instructor.

At the schools students are evaluated on attitude, etiquette, mechanics
and skidpad. The basic requirements for entry into IA are 15 days
experience and scores of at least 4.2 out of 5 in the first three areas,
and 2.9 on the skidpad. At that point the student gets a letter
inviting them to consider joining the Instructor Academy. The
graduation requirements are attitude, etiquette, mechanics and skidpad
scores of 4.9, 4.9, 4.7, 4.0 respectively and 35 days of experience.

2. Qualify as an experienced outside (of NCC) instructor. The procedure
includes recommendation by a current NCC Instructor, an application
requiring a minimum of 50 days track experience with 25 days track
instructing experience, and a track check-out.

If the Chief Instructor is satisfied with the application and
recommendation, a scored track/skidpad check-out is scheduled during the
afternoon of an instructor training day. The standards for attitude,
etiquette, and mechanics are the same as for IA graduation.

Most of our instructors come through the student path, even if they
instruct for other groups while attending our schools as students.
However, we have had a number of instructors qualify through the
"experienced outside instructor" process.

Bill Shook is the Chief Instructor, so he handles inquiries from
experienced outside instructors. If you believe that you qualify as an
experienced outside instructor, he can provide you with an instructor
application package which has all the details.

Barry
08-10-2005, 08:39 AM
Written by Pete Read.
...because most outside instructors won't
have as much experience on a skidpad as someone who goes through NCC
schools.
That's a pretty general statement and it certainly doesn't apply to me.
I became an Instructor the 2nd way, but I came with probably 10 times more skidpad experience than anyone who came through the NCC schools.
I took Bill Scott's 5-day Instructor course and that qualified me to teach every program offerred by BSR, including the Counter-Terrorism stuff and the Police Pursuit. I became "skidpad certified" during that 5-day course and have been a FATT skidpad instructor for over 10 years. I also teach skidpad for Car Guys and, most recently, I was one of the Instructors at the Drifting School at the last Hype-R Fest. That School included a lot of skidpad time.
Barry

1996 328ti
08-10-2005, 12:55 PM
Barry,
But how many tracks other than SPR have active skid pads?

Barry
08-10-2005, 01:47 PM
Barry,
But how many tracks other than SPR have active skid pads?

Well, I know that Lime Rock has one for sure. I've seen it.

A number of other tracks offer a lot of driving courses, and that would include Pocono, Mid-Ohio, and BeaverRun, for example. But in each case that I've been to these tracks, as well as many other tracks, I was there solely to race. So, if they had an active skidpad I wasn't looking for it, because my mind was on racing.

It doesn't take much more than some adequate space to create a skidpad tho.

Barry

daddeu
08-10-2005, 04:15 PM
The Mid-Ohio School has a paved area for teaching skid control and they use a skid car (i.e., equipped with wheeled outriggers, hydraulic or electric, controlled by the instructor).

Barry
08-10-2005, 06:39 PM
The Mid-Ohio School has a paved area for teaching skid control and they use a skid car (i.e., equipped with wheeled outriggers, hydraulic or electric, controlled by the instructor).


I should have remembered that, considering how many times I've been to Mid-Ohio.
BTW, this year will be my 7th straight Runoffs participation.
Barry

woodym3
08-11-2005, 09:47 AM
Barry,
But how many tracks other than SPR have active skid pads?

Depends on your definition of "active". Some tracks restrict there use to the professional schools.
Road Atlanta, VIR, BeaveRun, Lime Rock. Watkins Glen had one in the '70s, but it's long gone now.

SharkD
01-06-2006, 04:50 PM
Quick question... regarding the first method of becoming an NCC instructor, does non-NCC track time count toward the 35 days of experience?

OwnedbyDuncan
01-06-2006, 05:24 PM
That's a pretty general statement and it certainly doesn't apply to me.
I became an Instructor the 2nd way, but I came with probably 10 times more skidpad experience than anyone who came through the NCC schools.
I took Bill Scott's 5-day Instructor course and that qualified me to teach every program offerred by BSR, including the Counter-Terrorism stuff and the Police Pursuit. I became "skidpad certified" during that 5-day course and have been a FATT skidpad instructor for over 10 years. I also teach skidpad for Car Guys and, most recently, I was one of the Instructors at the Drifting School at the last Hype-R Fest. That School included a lot of skidpad time.
Barry

Barry,

I can think of numerous NCC instructors have 10 to a 100times more skidpad time than you do. I for one have never been impressed with BSR instructors

Dave Apker

1996 328ti
01-06-2006, 05:38 PM
Quick question... regarding the first method of becoming an NCC instructor, does non-NCC track time count toward the 35 days of experience?I believe the answer is yes. Pete Read would be the one to ask.

Roy
01-06-2006, 09:00 PM
The answer is, yes, all track days count as experience towards the 35 minimum required for IA graduation. For example, FATT, other chapter schools, BMW club race school, and generally, any similar environment where you are going to have experience that is transferrable to and usable in a driving school environment.
-Roy Morris
DSSC Chair

Barry
01-08-2006, 10:53 AM
Barry,
I can think of numerous NCC instructors have 10 to a 100times more skidpad time than you do. I for one have never been impressed with BSR instructors
Dave Apker


Dave,
FWIW, I can't imagine that anyone has as much skiddpad time as I have, but even if your right, so what?.

Way back in the early 1990's I took the BSR 5-day Instructor training course and I can tell you, there is no equal. That course is known around the world for it's very specialized training. You master every skill taught in a BSR course so you can teach it. Check out their menu of courses at www.bsr-inc.com and you'll see just about everything imaginable.

After 9/11, the demand for some of their courses has increased dramatically, and I only wish I had the time to go back and teach some of that stuff.

But, back in the years when I was teaching the full menu of BSR courses I found myself teaching forward and reverse 180's all day long. Neat stuff, and the full-time BSR Instructors were the most professional you could find.

I suspect that the BSR Instructors you're talking about are the part-timers who teach for the FATT program. I admit that, in the past, there have been some FATT Instructors who weren't as experienced as we'd like to see, but that's changing.

For 2006 BSR has selected a group of very experienced instructors and designated them as Senior Instructors. And, at least two of us are NCC instructors. This new group will mentor the newer and less-experienced Instructors. Yesterday, we spent a full day on the Shenandoah with the BSR staff developing the training methods the Senior Instructors will use for the 2006 season.

Then on 1/28/06 and again on 2/25/06 the BSR staff will have all day clinics for the regular FATT Instructors and the Senior Instructors will be participating heavily.

But, look Dave, it's not a contest. The NCC has some very fine instructors, but so do a lot of other clubs, and now, I can assure you that the FATT Instructors you see in 2006 will be as good as any.

woodym3
01-09-2006, 09:10 AM
Barry,

I can think of numerous NCC instructors have 10 to a 100times more skidpad time than you do. I for one have never been impressed with BSR instructors

Dave Apker
Dave,
This has to rank at the top of your many misinformed posts. And how many BSR events have you done in the last 10 years? I'm betting zero.

OwnedbyDuncan
01-09-2006, 10:09 AM
Woody,

Have attended a several of BSR's various programs through my position with DOD in last 10 years. Dave

Jenson Button
10-24-2006, 07:12 PM
"I was one of the Instructors at the Drifting School at the last Hype-R Fest. That School included a lot of skidpad time."

I saw Brian Hair there and certainly enjoyed the time spent thrashing the BSR cars on the "pistol grip" section of the Shenendoah with him. After the initial run through of each student, I moved over to the Skidpad area to instruct any students who wanted help. Few would accept the offer. I never saw you there. I never saw any instructors doing laps on the skidpad (although I did steal 5 laps in a students Sylvia).

On the other hand, when I was coming up through the NCC schools, I had easily 10 Fridays with so much skidpad time I got sick of doing laps. To this day, hardly a Summit Point track event passes without me sneaking to the skidpad for some play time. I have never seen you there at any NCC, NJ, Delaware Valley, Corvette, Mini, Audi, or BSR events.

Pete's comments may not cover EVERY potential instructor, but it is generally true that NCC kadets get more skidpad time than other instructors. I have found the NCC graduates are usually running the skidpad for NJ and DVC schools.

The NCC stress on skidpad training made itself clear on the amazing Jefferson Circuit event of 2005. The instructor runs looked like a drift event with 3,4,or 5 guys drifting up the hill to turn 5 within inched of each other with no drama. The level of car control displayed by most of the people who chose to show it off was impressive. I think this is the event that afterwhich you proclaimed the track had been lubricated by peanut oil!?!?

Barry
10-25-2006, 06:56 AM
"I was one of the Instructors at the Drifting School at the last Hype-R Fest. That School included a lot of skidpad time."

TO CLARIFY: The above comment was made in reference to the 2005 Hype-R Fest. I was asked to instruct at the 2006 event but I was already committed to a race.


"I think this is the event that afterwhich you proclaimed the track had been lubricated by peanut oil!?!?

TO CLARIFY: The Drifting School on the Jefferson Circuit where the track surface was coated with peanut oil was at one of the very first Hype-R events. The peanut oil was used only once, as the BSR staff realized it wasn't the best idea they ever had.

Barry

e30m3sm
12-17-2006, 12:46 AM
There are many groups who use the 2 skidpads at Summit. The NCC does not have a monopoly on it's use for student or instructor training.
I have been on the skidpad for 45 mins. alone, continuosly on several occaisions. Sometimes with BSR and other times with CarGuys, NJ or Del/Val BMW.
I have seen Aryan (owner of CarGuys) doing laps in his dualie tow vehicle with his tail out on the skidpad.
Furthermore, I am in full agreement with Barry Brown's assertation that the regular BSR professional instructors are the genuine article. They teach on the skidpad daily; it's their job. They also teach on the unimproved dirt/mud roads course. Frankly, this is even better than skidpad training as it employs the same skill set, but dynamically in real world situations. The graduation exercise is a timed lap in a 2-wheel drive Jeep. Barry knows as we both took this same course on the same day and Mr. Brown did a splendid time.
Before anyone gets a "We are the best mentality" please realize that there are many sensei out there, not all of whom learned at the IA.
Just my $0.02 worth. Gerry Chan

mlytle
05-30-2011, 03:36 PM
who is current contact for experienced outside instructors to volunteer with NCC?

1996 328ti
05-30-2011, 03:55 PM
who is current contact for experienced outside instructors to volunteer with NCC?Not sure.
Might want to contact Pete Read at pete.read@<hidden>